Anthroposophy and Islam, and Peter
NW
From: Tarjei Straume
Date: Sun Apr 18, 2004 4:54 pm
Subject: Anthroposophy and Islam, and Peter NW
Back in November, we had three threads on
Islam, beginning with the following posts:
occult lodges and islam
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anthroposophy_tomorrow/message/3
Islam, Christianity, and justice....
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anthroposophy_tomorrow/message/225
hello - Islam
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anthroposophy_tomorrow/message/297
These threads have been html-formattted and
compiled here for easy reading:
http://www.uncletaz.com/at/novdec03/occlodg.html
http://www.uncletaz.com/at/novdec03/islmchrjust.html
http://www.uncletaz.com/at/novdec03/helloislam.html
On March 4, I attended a lecture about Anthroposophy
and Islam held by Peter Normann Waage. He was preparing for this
lecture when I sent him some bits and pieces from the above-mentioned
threads, and this seemed to get him going. I was not aware that
Peter NW is quite an expert on Islam and has taken an active
interest in Islamic studies since his college days. He did aquire
the cycle to the priests that I quoted from and mentioned it
during the lecture, but this Sorat-666-angle came on short notice
- it was released to the public only a very few years ago - so
in my view, he had not taken this sufficiently into account.
I say this with a great deal of caution, because
Peter NW knows so much more about Islam than I do, and a major
difference between people like myself and people like Diana,
Peter S, and "Lightsearcher1" (El Eswahn) is that people
like me are always willing to adjust our opinions in the light
of new information. I have adopted a "hard line" on
Islam because it is backed up by some hard facts, including spiritual-scientific
facts. But I have always been aware that these facts represent
only a partial picture of something as complicated as the role
of Islam in human history and evolution.
Goethe is very popular among Muslims. Peter
NW draws an interesting parallel between Martin Luther and Mohammed.
He has promised to send me the manuscript of the lecture (I didn't
take notes), and it looks like I'll have to remind him. (We had
lunch and talked about other things, and then he went to Switzerland
to do something at the Goetheanum.)
We talked earlier here about something Bradford
also has pointed to - namely that the old monotheistic religions
embrace the Father God only and do not comprehend the Son God,
the "I AM," the autonomous, self-dependent human being
we find in the PoF. Peter NW, however, mentions Muslim philosophers
whose thinking goes very parallel with the PoF. One of these
was an older Iranian man who concluded that every person who
understood Islam could interpret the Koran and even re-write
it. He was executed for blasphemy by the Ayatollah.
El Eswahn (Lightsearcher1) seems to think
that the only Islam that has validity exists among executioners,
murderers, and terrorists. Those who recognize that the real
Islam exists among philosophers of freedom, among the executed
rather than the executioners, are suffering from the disease
of liberalism and a pathological lack of bloodthirst or something.
Anyway, there is one riddle that was solved
for me when I listened to Peter's lecture. In Christianity, the
Word, the Logos, becomes flesh through the incarnation in Christ-Jesus.
For Muslims, it is impossible for Allah to have a son, because
the Word, the Logos, is the Koran. In other words, in Islam,
the Logos becomes Scripture, and in Christianity, the Logos becomes
flesh, it becomes completely human.
Something to think about. I'll get back to
this topic later when I've received Peter's manusctipt and resumed
those apocalyptic studies as well. In the meantime, some comments
and feedbacks may be of interest.
Cheers,
Tarjei
http://uncletaz.com/
...................................................................................................................................
From: VALENTINA BRUNETTI
Date: Sun Apr 18, 2004 10:36 pm
Subject: Sketches about Islam Was:R: [anthroposophy_tomorrow]
Anthroposophy and Islam, and Peter NW
Hi Tarjei.
The "Islam issue" as you was able
to show it's much more complicated than the grandguignol hatred
of "Darkfinder" could imagine . I'll put here some
short sketches, based on Steiner's insights and on some historical
facts.
In the beginning (VII Cent) Islam took place
like a "2 horns Beast" impulse offspring. After a while
such an impulse was "milded" by the whole development
of Islamic culture between VII and XIV cent due to a kind of
"Lucifer's help" that helped Islamic culture to develop
in the ways able to build some links, both occult and exoteric
(Bacon's issue) with the historical necessity of Ahrimanic Western
Materialism during the following centuries (Steiner's Leading
Thoughts). In the meantime a further eastern impulse was rising:
the Central Asian Mongolix one (Mars Demons) that, on a purely
historical level, can be seen, in the Turkish Empire building
and development. (Much of European ipublic image about Arabism
is based on the "fear of the Turkish").
As a new counterbalance, from the deepest
Eastern Wisdom, another poistive impulse was born in the meantime
: namely the Sufi tradition able to mix itself up with the Islamic
orthodoxy. (Omar Inahayatt Khan is the last of those occultist).
The actually tragic event in Islamic history
was, on the contary, during XIX Century and onwards, the meeting
with Western nationalism and "democratic issue" till
today. This cultural soup of different cultural and occult impulses
is at the core of the harsh troubles of today that, as a kernel,
got more and more the tricks and hames of Western Lodges that,
as usual, play their games of "Sourcerie's Apprenticers".
Andrea
...................................................................................................................................
From: holderlin66
Date: Mon Apr 19, 2004 8:25 am
Subject: Re: Anthroposophy and Islam, and Peter NW
Tarjei Straume wrote:
Goethe is very popular among Muslims. Peter
NW draws an interesting parallel between Martin Luther and Mohammed.
GOETHE
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/jul2000/khat-j21.shtml
"Accompanied by German
President Johannes Rau, a member of the ruling Social Democratic
Party (SPD), Khatami unveiled a memorial dedicated to two of
the greatest German and Persian poets, Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
and Hafiz, the poetic name of Shams ud-Din Mohammed (c.1325-89).
Following the unveiling ceremony,
Khatami was scheduled to speak before assembled dignitaries for
20 minutes. He spoke longer, dwelling on the close historic links
between Iran and Germany. He referred to Goethe's affinity for
the work of the fourteenth century Persian poet Hafiz, and also
to the Islamic poet and political leader Muhammad Allama Iqbal
(1877-1938).
Khatami's references to the
relationship between Goethe and Hafiz are historically accurate.
Goethe first came across translations of the Persian poet in
1814. He was immediately taken with the vital, life- embracing
texts of the Persian that employed a rich range of metaphors
to deal with the human condition. He declared himself to be Hafiz'
twin and his aim to be the celebration of love and wine in the
manner of his co-thinker. By the middle of the same year Goethe
had written 30 verses dedicated to the earlier poet.
Goethe has often been described
as the quintessential German poet, but what characterised his
work above all was its universalism. His interest and study of
literature embraced all of European literature, including classical
Greek and Roman, as well as the outstanding prose and poetry
of Arabia and the Middle East, China and India. In 1827 he wrote:
"National literature no longer means very much, the age
of world literature is due."
When Hafiz wrote his poems
in the fourteenth century, he was by no means appealing to a
"national" audience. His potential audience in the
Islamic and Oriental world, with its heart in Persia, extended
throughout the Arab countries, North Africa, Sicily and Spain.
Goethe wrote one stanza linking Hafiz to Spain's most celebrated
poet, Calderon de la Barca:
"Magnificent Orient
spread across the Mediterranean
Only he who knows and loves
Hafiz
can understand the songs of
Calderon."
Bradford comments;
Goethe in a generous cosmopolitan and Consciousness
Soul manner, elaborated out of Weimar the sense of the Universal
Human Being. This would indeed be the model of the Consciousness
Soul out of Germany and Steiner understood that even Napoleon
desired to meet Goethe. So that we understand that Steiner focused
on the Universal Human Being that was a Platonic King, a human
being who was felt to be a global being existed in Goethe. This
model became for us as well the Goetheanum.
The Goetheanum had stood in the midst of the
fall of Europe and held Goethe up as a starting point for Europe
to take up the Consciousness Soul. In this Consciousness Soul
Steiner could pollinate the Michael Insights needed to lead mankind
to a foundational understanding of brotherhood.
Bradford
...................................................................................................................................
From: danifyou
Date: Mon Apr 19, 2004 11:20 am
Subject: Rép. : Re: Anthroposophy and Islam, and Peter
NW
Would the World be more Ideally constituted
On the Social and the Culture of MAN; Jeez..
We'd have what you've given below on the News - Brad!
(Yes - it could then be rightly for sure Capitalized! :)
Thanks to you to fill the gap
And for the Commemorative
Goethean comment!
Let Goethe be our Poetic Diplomat!
Thanks for the Hi(n)t Taz!
Dan
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