AT Quote Proposal

 

From: dottie zold
Date: Thu Apr 1, 2004 4:06 pm
Subject: AT Quote Proposal

Peter Staudenmaier:

[From "RS about Racial Evolution"]

No, it doesn't. Evolution is about plants, animals, and so forth. Cultures are fundamentally different things.

AT Quote of the Year. I propose this as quote of the year and then,

Peter Staudenmaier:

Yes. It largely operates by natural selection, a mostly random process that is not progressive and has no goal. None of this has anything to do with cultures.

the one above for AT Quote of the Month.

Made my day,

Dottie

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From: Peter Staudenmaier
Date: Thu Apr 1, 2004 6:33 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] AT Quote Proposal

Hi Dottie,

do you think that "culture" is a biological phenomenon, that it is hereditary, that it is passed on via the genes? Could you explain why you think that? Thanks,

Peter

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From: dottie zold
Date: Thu Apr 1, 2004 8:10 pm
Subject: Re: AT Quote Proposal

Peter:

do you think that "culture" is a biological phenomenon, that it is hereditary, that it is passed on via the genes? Could you explain why you think that? Thanks,

And I said that where, Peter? If you are going to state what I think you should at least get it straight. Unfortunately this is the same thing you do with all whom debate with you. You give them a reputation to live down to. Pretty interesting. So, where in my statement do you see, which of course I made none other than to show the ridiculousness of your quote, that I am saying I think 'culture is a biological phenomenon? What silliness.

What you can't see past in all your readings of Dr. Steiner and his students is that 'evolution' does not just involve plants, animals and so forth. The ridiculousness of stating 'cultures' do not evolve is absoutely stunning for me to see it in actual writing. Maybe I give you too much credit for intellectual prowess.

So, how is it you come to the idea that evolution does not include human beings? Do you not see the ignorance in this kind of statement? Do you think men are just a lump of clay with no point of moving forward in mind and spirit? Oh, I forgot, you don't go to the spiritual aspect. Therefore we are stuck in the dead letter word of what Peter thinks. And truly it is what I am witnessing on line: people trying to rationalize with you when there really is nothing to rationalize. You only want one point to be shown and so we keep getting dragged down to your none understanding points as you keep thinking you are finding something. You are finding nothing Peter but dead letter words and you can not see it.

And another ignorant observation, but I do not think it can be called an observation, is 'evolution operates by a mostly random process that is not progressive and has no goal.' What the hell are you possibly thinking of Peter? Seriously. Are you really that closed off to thinking past what you can physically see with your own eyes that you do not allow yourself to contemplate the wonder of this world and what has happened and where we are and where we might be going?

Maybe you have not. Maybe it is your mindset and there is naught that will change with this point of yours in your mind. Too bad for you. Truly. And my thought and wonder is, how did this come about in your life? How is it that you have brought yourself to a point where you see no correlation between what has been and what is and what will be? Was it some teacher in college or maybe highschool? I mean what the hell happened for you to come to this particular point of view? Who was the instigator in this mess of yours? And it is a mess. I say that as a friend. I would not naturally say this if I didn't care I would just let it be and that is that. But you sir have brought yourself before me and so you get to hear my words. Ignore them you can, but say them not is not a possibility for me.

Much love to you Peter,
Dottie

p.s. And I am sure there are many quotes of mine that could easily be put up on this list as Quote of the Month as well. Do not fret.

And so it goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and

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From: Peter Staudenmaier
Date: Fri Apr 2, 2004 9:41 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: AT Quote Proposal

Hi Dottie, you wrote:

If you are going to state what I think you should at least get it straight.

I didn't state what you think. I asked you what you think. Surely you can tell the difference.

So, where in my statement do you see, which of course I made none other than to show the ridiculousness of your quote, that I am saying I think 'culture is a biological phenomenon?

My quote could only seem ridiculous to someone who thinks that culture is a biological phenomenon. If you don't think that culture is a biological phenomenon, then why did you disagree with my observation that cultural evolution and biological evolution are fundamentally different things, and that natural selection has nothing to do with culture?

The ridiculousness of stating 'cultures' do not evolve is absoutely stunning for me to see it in actual writing.

I didn't state that cultures do not evolve. I stated that biological evolution, structured as it is around natural selection, is a fundamentally different kind of evolution. I also stated that there is little sense in designating one culture as more advanced than another

So, how is it you come to the idea that evolution does not include human beings?

I didn't come to that idea. Human beings evolved just as trees did.

Do you think men are just a lump of clay with no point of moving forward in mind and spirit?

No. But this has nothing whatsoever to do with the idea of racial evolution. Lots of people who believe in moving forward in mind and spirit reject the notion of progressive racial evolution.

And another ignorant observation, but I do not think it can be called an observation, is 'evolution operates by a mostly random process that is not progressive and has no goal.' What the hell are you possibly thinking of Peter?

I am thinking of natural evolution. I get the sense that you don't know much about contemporary evolutionary biology. The notion that evolution is directed toward a goal of ever greater perfection is mistaken.

Peter

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