Clarification of the term 'Racist'

 

From: raymon_ford
Date: Thu Apr 8, 2004 7:29 am
Subject: Clarification of the term 'Racist'

Gidday Peter,

Thanks for your earlier replies. I had misread your earlier statements a bit so need to make a new start; I'll ask you to make a clarification below so as to be sure I understand your position.

I see you noting elsewhere that your six weeks are up – I for one hope you stay on a bit more. This is a fascinating exchange of views we are seeing here. I believe the membership of this group has increased considerably since you and Diana came on – perhaps the administrator can comment whether there is indeed a correlation – if so it would suggest significant interest in what you both are bringing to this forum.

The clarification I am after is as follows (these statements purposely omit more contentious elements, and so will appear frivolous to some, but I am not intending any mockery of the issues involved):

Statement A: `In the future humanity will be divided into two races, one which appreciates the eating of icecream, the other which does not.'

Statement B: `The ability to appreciate the eating of icecream denotes that the race possessing this quality is higher than the other.'

With respect to your argument, is statement A racist in itself, or must it be combined with statement B to be so considered?

See ya, Raymon

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From: Peter Staudenmaier
Date: Thu Apr 8, 2004 7:22 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Clarification of the term 'Racist'

Hi Raymon, thanks for your post. You wrote:

The clarification I am after is as follows (these statements purposely omit more contentious elements, and so will appear frivolous to some, but I am not intending any mockery of the issues involved):

Statement A: `In the future humanity will be divided into two races, one which appreciates the eating of icecream, the other which does not.'

Statement B: `The ability to appreciate the eating of icecream denotes that the race possessing this quality is higher than the other.'

With respect to your argument, is statement A racist in itself, or must it be combined with statement B to be so considered?

I think a combination of A and B is needed to qualify as racist, though there are also several other versions of B that would do the trick. Just saying that there are or will be different races but that they won't have any significant distinguishing features isn't necessarily racist in itself. When the ostensibly distinguishing features are invested with spiritual meaning and/or ranked in some sort of order, then it becomes racist, in my view. If the person who made statement A also held icecream eating to be some sort of central human activity, then that would also fit.

Peter

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From: holderlin66
Date: Thu Apr 8, 2004 8:05 pm
Subject: Re: Clarification of the term 'Racist'

Peter Staudenmaier

When the ostensibly distinguishing features are invested with spiritual meaning and/or ranked in some sort of order, then it becomes racist, in my view.

Bradford comments;

Let us take colors - Blue - Green - Red - Yellow - White - Purple - Orange. After Harvey, I have to give reality and Truth some air, I trot out the horse of truth, and I don't even expect this to compute, which.. well there was a wonderful comparison once...

But -

Blue
Green
Red
Yellow
White
Purple
Orange

Saturday
Friday
Tuesday
Wednesday
Sunday
Saturday
Thursday

Now if those were Races, we see that they seem to be in no particular order. If I came in on a Tuesday, or was born on a Tuesday, I would be a Tuesday person.

If I was from the Orange race, perhaps Thursday would be special to me.

If I paint a picture and use dominating blue and green or use the primary colors, I could be describing three different types of people who create a whole family... a whole new painting of reality.

The Order of the days of the week we follow, are charted as our Business emphasis. But for Islam Friday may be important and for the Jews, Satuday more important and for Quasi Christians, perhaps Sunday is important.

Perhaps for an I AM all these days are important. I had to write a poem for each child in my class, yearly; and they spoke them before the class, on every day that their day come up during the run of the week.

Now Newtonian color and Race and Noah's promise from some divine being was this:

"God said to Noah : ... I will make My covenant with you, and all life will never be cut short by the waters of a flood. ...

"God said: This is the sign that I am providing for the covenant between Me, you, and every living creature with you, for all generations: I have placed My rainbow in the clouds .... The rainbow will be in the clouds, and I will see it to recall the eternal covenant ...." [Gen. 27:8-16]

Now when we look at thinking, and we are far into the refreshing springs of thought, away from any ability Peter Staudenmaier's has to follow us, we understand the Newtonian and Goethean Color Theory, a triangle and a prism. A triangle that lets light through is like the I AM.

But every detail of research where we uncover 7 Post Atlantean cultural epochs, or we arrange, a pattern, Copper-Iron-Zinc-Lead-Silver-Gold-Mercury and we see that these things have various values. Copper serves a very important need, and it is different than gold. Iron serves culture differently than Lead. But both are very different.

We can go on like this for days and days, showing the difference in different etheric bodies, Languages, festivals, foods, and they pattern themselves all on the 7 fold contract of the mythical Noah.

So if we speak over the head of one contracted, little, useless intellect and make them all grey.. than all those differences disappear. You see dear friends, to describe the differences and the different values of precious metals, colors, musical tones, we find that we cannot make music anymore. Cannot paint anymore, because all of these differences are RACIST.

Your comments?

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From: Peter Staudenmaier
Date: Thu Apr 8, 2004 8:26 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Clarification of the term 'Racist'

Hi Bradford, you wrote:

You see dear friends, to describe the differences and the different values of precious metals, colors, musical tones, we find that we cannot make music anymore. Cannot paint anymore, because all of these differences are RACIST.

Difference is wonderful. The vast majority of theories about difference are not racist. But a few of them are. One of the racist ones is the theory that sorts racial differences into "higher" and "lower" categories. That is the theory that Rudolf Steiner taught. Repudiating that theory does not require you to reject difference as such.

Peter

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From: holderlin66
Date: Thu Apr 8, 2004 9:58 pm
Subject: Re: Clarification of the term 'Racist'

Peter Staudenmaier wrote:

One of the racist ones is the theory that sorts racial differences into "higher" and "lower" categories.

Today Johnny had to sit in the corner cause he said a bad word. Now there is Justice in this. It could be the first signs of behavior disorder. That would make someone different. Not better or worse but it would single them out, but who has singled them out?

When I used to line up my class, it would sometimes be by birthday month. In otherwords January starts the front of the line, to go to recess. Sometimes I would use height, the tallest last or the tallest first.

now a stone is a wonderful thing;
now a plant is a wonderful thing;
now an animal is wonderful thing;
now a human being is wonderful thing;

Is there a higher and lower order in them. Oh, let us look at the horizontal spine of the poor animal, now we look at the vertical spine of the human. Now we look at the roots of the plant, pointing into the earth. Now we look at the head of the human, raised to the sky. Are there higher and lower orders, ranks, Beings?

Now my Newtonian theories are very, very sound, but I get no credit for letting you in on the secret. The Contract with Humanity was based on 7 different, and interesting qualities. Some of them imprinted in etheric capacity.

Based on the types of studies that were pursued in the Classical world, the Seven Liberal Arts became codified in late antiquity by such writers as Varro and Martianus Capella. In medieval times, the Seven Liberal Arts offered a canonical way of depicting the realms of higher learning.

The Liberal Arts were divided into the Trivium ("the three roads") and the Quadrivium ("the four roads").

The Trivium consisted of:

Grammar
Rhetoric
Logic

The Quadrivium consisted of:

Arithmetic -- Number in itself
Geometry -- Number in space
Music, Harmonics, or Tuning Theory -- Number in time
Astronomy or Cosmology -- Number in space and time

Now for someone like you, Peter, certainly you are talented, specifically talented in at least one of these areas. The Red Violin might be worth more than any Violin, or the Olympic gold medalist has won the 1st prize and was awarded Gold.. not Lead, but gold, not copper, not brass.. Is there a higher and lower ranking here?

In concert piano - in math - in spelling BEEs - in the Lottery... now the Lottery is one of the few wins that really don't reveal much about the winner. Destiny and Greed are funny that way. Suppose you can eat the most pies and are the fattest person in the entire world, you are the greatest and best fat person in the world.

Now, suppose your skin color is the best ebony, judged on smoothness and texture, your skin tone is world wide recognized. Helen, Helen of Troy, was not ranked fifth in beauty, and who is to judge? Certainly not Peter Staudenmaier.

The most interesting use of ivory and jade, the greatest most world renown carvings in ivory and jade were the Chinese. Also the Zen Garden and Oriental flower arrangements. In the intricate jade and Ivory carvings and wooden dimsional landscapes and figures of these stunning oriental carvings, we can see all the way back to Atlantis and the foreheads,, why are all the foreheads of these ancient and wise Chinese so tall, such large heads, why? Did they see it that way?

Islam loves Friday
Israel loves Saturday
Christians love hypocrisy

Now, our solar system has a very big hot thing, it is the biggest thing in the solar system. Lions are some of the most loud and dangerous creatures in the Jungle..agile, fangy..and Kings like them. But wait we can't have higher and lower can we?

I am not the best basketball player in the world
I am not the best soccer player in the world
But there is a best basketball player in the world
There is a best soccer player in the world.

There is a coldest spot on Earth and there is a warmest spot on Earth. There is Intelligence and Stupidity. There is Retardation and Perfection. And on these foundations of common sense and reality we build discernment. Now would you rather go into the ocean with the biggest shark on the planet or a baby, tiny small shark?

What is your favorite color? Do you prefer Men or Women? Do you like your cloths starched and stiff or soft? Are stones equal to animals? If the British Government encouraged the Opium trade and Opium dens and addicted tens of thousands of souls to Opium, so that their incarnations were wasted, wasted etheric body, wasted astral body, wasted in a dark, dream, unused, contributing nothing but worshiping the Poppy, entranced only by the Poppy.. failing family, children, jobs, human activity...

What form do you think these people will take in their next incarnation. Will their forces be stunted, as if they had missed a whole chunk of time and life? If a man loses his limb in one incarnation, will he born again with out limb or whole? Did the man born blind, did he sin in the womb, or is there no accounting for any moral perfection or imperfection.

If you have a zit full of puss on your face, is that perfection or imperfection. Perhaps it is the Perfect Zit like having a Perfect Storm. So why had African Americans kinky hair? What is the specific quality in the blood that makes for Redheads? Brunettes? When I shake a persons hand and it is extremely sweaty or small, fat and stubby, does that tell me about a person. Can I gather information from a person through form, word, thought and deed? Are there regular Professional Tests that catagorize personalities by types that are used in business? Can a computer find you an ideal mate?

Are ranks in the military, Politics, or a bar valid? Should the maritime ships captain be the same as the steward? Rank, category, discernment, quality, enrichment and judgement. Relying on the maturity and ever ripening perception and discernment of human insight can bring exceptional wisdom...

Is there such thing as exceptional Perfection? Can humans perfect themselves even to a rank above Human?

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From: Peter Staudenmaier
Date: Fri Apr 9, 2004 8:55 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Clarification of the term 'Racist'

Hi again Bradford, you wrote:

the Olympic gold medalist has won the 1st prize and was awarded Gold.. not Lead, but gold, not copper, not brass.. Is there a higher and lower ranking here?

Yes. The gold medal is ranked higher than the silver medal, which is in turn ranked higher than the bronze medal. That's what ranking means.

But wait we can't have higher and lower can we?

Sure we can. Higher and lower olympic medals is a fine idea. Higher and lower races is a racist idea. Get it?

There is a best soccer player in the world.

Yep. There's just not a best race in the world. Race isn't a competition, unlike soccer games and olympic events.
or is there no accounting for any moral perfection or imperfection.

There is no accounting for moral perfection or imperfection in racial terms. Race has nothing to do with moral perfection or imperfection (neither does soccer, by the way).

Yours for discernment,

Peter

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