Lies
From: Deborah
Date: Tue Apr 6, 2004 4:37 pm
Subject: lies
Dear Diana,
I will respond in a few days with a compilation
of untruths in some of the attacks on Steiner, waldorf education
and anthroposophy. Unfortunately I have some assignments I should
work on and they do come first. I can whip off snotty, smart-ass
remarks with no particular effort, but finding the lies, documenting
exactly how they are lies and then writing the whole thing up
will take time and effort.
So do not, for a moment, think I am shirking
my duty!
And do call me Deborah. I wouldn't want you
to be uncomfortable:)
Deborah
...................................................................................................................................
From: Deborah
Date: Thu Apr 8, 2004 6:23 am
Subject: lies
Peter Staudenmeier writes lies.
He made up some racist content and claimed
that Steiner's lectures in Norway contained said racist content.
His defence?
1) Steiner did actually give some lectures
in Norway. This is not in dispute. I agree, the evidence is absolutely
clear on this point: Steiner gave some lectures in Norway.
2) Said lectures included a German word that can be translated
as either root race or main race depending on the translator.
This is the only bit of his made up racist content that he has
tried to defend.
Peter Staudenmeier writes lies.
As I said earlier, if Steiner is really "racist
to the core" it should be possible to demonstrate this reality
without quoting out of context, mistranslating or making things
up. Once someone has demonstrated that they make things up (i.e.
lie) I cannot see any reason to continue talking to them. I certainly
can't see treating a person who writes lies as an authority on
the content of the person they are misrepresenting!
So, why don't we politely ask Peter to go
and write lies to some other group of suckers? And Diana, if
you think Peter has been truthful in his representation of Steiner's
Norway lectures, please read them and share the relevant passages
with us. Thanks to everyone for all their hard work in illuminating
the actual content of these lectures. Great job of window cleaning
after someone tossed some poop.
Deborah
PS I'm going to stop participating for a few
days so I can finish my fascinating paper on the TV industry
in Canada (for my Business Information class). Bye for now.
...................................................................................................................................
From: Peter
Staudenmaier
Date: Thu Apr 8, 2004 9:56 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] lies
Hi Deborah,
lies are when I write something that I do not believe to be true.
When I write something that you do not believe to be true, I
am not lying. All you really mean is that my arguments about
anthroposophy are erroneous. On that score, you wrote:
I agree, the evidence is absolutely clear
on this point: Steiner gave some lectures in Norway.
Glad we agree on that. Did you notice that in these lectures
Steiner says that the Negro race is substantially determined
by childhood characteristics, and that the American Indians died
out because they were destined to do so, not because of persecution
by Europeans? I'd be very interested to hear why you think those
views are not racist. Thanks,
Peter
...................................................................................................................................
From: holderlin66
Date: Thu Apr 8, 2004 9:11 am
Subject: Re: lies
holderlin
wrote:
http://wn.elib.com/Steiner/Articles/ReKarm_e01.html
Bradford comments;
Yes, I know this post heding is just a day
old, but I hope, and I do hope we understand what we read when
we read it. I hope you see, that which I quoted from the above
lecture location of Dr. Steiner, regarding Karma, regarding the
passion Steiner had to reveal the mystery of the I Am in a dumb
and dense, scientific world. I hope you read Steiner's heroic,
isolated, absolutely alone role in presenting things that would,
if ever, taken 200 years for the sluggish, silly and massively
destructive thinking of science to consider.
Here was a scientist of both Chemistry and
a Scientist of the Human Soul, Dr. Steiner. Steiner's words on
the Music of the Spheres in relation to tone and their numbers
and relationships, and the relationships of those numbers, to
matter and to matter's chemical organization is stunning. Most
of us on this list have no idea what I am talking about, that
is tragic. He takes the Music of the Spheres, Kepler's brilliant
analogy and Mystical Fact as a relation to chemistry. Steiner
brings this as a Scientist, as a math construct to the world,
that comes out of the Devachan world. Isn't this important to
you of the Michael School as it hinges on the entire framework
of the Resurrection?
When I say Christ is a master of the Atomic
Table and the Imagination of the Human Form arises out of the
Logos and that Mary Magdalene was an eyewitness to it... What
are we in the Michael School dawdling about? Have we no ability
to put these facts together and stand up for the I AM?
What do you think we are talking about with
Diluted Uranium or Chernobyl or Dr. StrangeLove and "The
Church of the UnRisen Light"? These shrunken headed morons
rule every university and we, would be hog tied by the likes
of Peter Staudenmaier or Science; Or Political Ahrimanic forces
in the U.S. and military, who, like most us, are in denial? Do
we not have weapons from Michael Intelligence and the lone battles
Dr. Steiner fought, to confront the crass lies and materialism
that our entire culture is resting on? We don't act like it.
I brought this specific quote as drawing a
relationship between Peter Staudenmaier and the entire Science,
cloning and evolutionary bullshit that Ladenburg flaps his gums
at. Steiner, myself and most of the people on this list are pissed
off, but we have also had a chance to think into the issue, review.
And this issue and our review over the issue of race has been
less than educational to the wide members of the Open Michael
School. We review but we review under snake rules, not I Am rules.
This is not polemics, this is illness, mental retardation, ignorance.
Steiner was pissed off about it. And so are we!
I say to all of us in the Michael School,
look at the lonely heroism, and passion of this one lone researcher
holding in his heart, the Karma and Science of the Christ Event,
against a massive Dragon, in Steiner's face and foaming polemic.
Here is is one Initiate with a lone sword. Here Tarjei, Andrea,
Paulina and so many of us have shown the drama of the Racial
attacks that bombarded the German Cultural Mission of I AM, Fichte
based, capacity to think. A cultural capacity to think, a different
ability than the Native American to track in the deep forests,
but to track the I Am in the forests of the Spirit. Here a monster
like Hitler was the response to the Munich I AM Steiner was holding
onto as a solo Initiate. Here was Paul once more facing Rome.
Here, buried in texts, upon heroic texts, are the record of Steiner's
first blows to create space for human insight to go deeper than
it has ever, EVER gone.
And here we have had the opportunity to hear
from Peter Staudenmaier who knows nothing of Spirituality and
is in the same mental framework as Ladenburg. Steiner's passion
against this statement is the same passion, and clarity, we should
have when confronted with such blatant, unresearched, ignorant
crap. We have the tools, and we are either afraid to use them,
or we haven't a bloody clue what Dr. Steiner was all about. Which
is it?
R.S.
"...is it not a disgrace if we have to
hear a sentence like the following, which was pronounced by the
Breslau chemist Albert Ladenburg, in a lecture at a recent (1903)
Conference of scientists: "Do we know anything about a substratum
of the soul? I have no such knowledge." After having made
this confession, this same man continues: "What is your
opinion concerning immortality? I believe that in regard to this
question, more than in regard to any other, the wish is father
to the thought, for I do not know a single scientifically proven
fact which might serve as the basis for the belief in immortality."
"What would the learned gentleman say
if we were confronted by a speaker who said: "I know nothing
about chemical facts. I therefore deny the chemical laws, for
I know not a single scientifically proven fact which might serve
as the basis for these laws." Certainly, the professor would
reply: "What do we care about your ignorance of chemistry?
first study chemistry, then do your talking!" Professor
Ladenburg does not know anything about a substratum of the soul;
he, therefore, should not bother the world with the findings
of his ignorance."
[Higher
evolution is not racist]
Bradford comments;
Developing, perfecting and advancing means; gaining and earning
insights into the workings of the etheric body, astral body and
ego and also confronting etheric obstructions and child hood
illnesses in the hereditary model. Overcoming dysfunctions is
not gained by clinging to failed ideas of race, religion, blood,
bad education, poor diet, and submerging the higher ego into
religious creeds and habits that hinder the I AM from developing
itself further.
Insights into your Etheric body are not
readily supplied by the AMA. Healthy food is not always served
in School lunches or packaged in supermarkets. You may be a RedNeck
if...you continue to incarnate in racially prejudicial karmic
connections or find yourself passed out weekly at some sports
stadium. Evolution of the soul amounts to clear observation and
distinction between dumb ass, destructive behavior, either religious
or sports related; Or; struggling in your I Am with higher paradigms
of the science of the human being, which are not beliefs, but
facts of soul-spirit and body.
...................................................................................................................................
From: Myaso
Date: Thu Apr 8, 2004 10:14 am
Subject: Re[2]: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] lies
Hello Peter,
Thursday, April 8, 2004, 7:56:21 PM, you wrote:
PS> Hi Deborah,
PS>
PS>
PS> lies are when I write something that I do not believe
to be
PS> true. When I write something that you do not believe
to be true, I
PS> am not lying. All you really mean is that my arguments
about
PS> anthroposophy are erroneous.
I agree with Peter. He is not lying. He is
really on the wrong way of thinking, and we can call him everything
like short-minded etc. - but not a liar.
Let's respect people's points of view. But
I would really like to see something that proves this point of
view. Peter, I have not still seen anything like this. Your maximum
hit was 15% with root races, but still not in the goal. I am
sorry.
Best regards,
Myaso
...................................................................................................................................
From: Mike Helsher
Date: Thu Apr 8, 2004 12:16 pm
Subject: Re: lies
Deborah writes:
Peter Staudenmeier writes lies.
As I said earlier, if Steiner is really
"racist to the core" it should be possible to demonstrate
this reality without quoting out of context, mistranslating or
making things up. Once someone has demonstrated that they make
things up (i.e. lie) I cannot see any reason to continue talking
to them. I certainly can't see treating a person who writes lies
as an authority on the content of the person they are misrepresenting!
Hear, hear Deborah!
If nobody listened to his rants, then he'd
wind up talking to himself. Which is what he pretty much does
anyway.
I think our list-mates have done a find job
of exposing his astounding arrogance.
As Dottie once said:
The game is up.
Personally, I think he might suffer from a
mild form of asperger syndrome:
http://www.asperger.org/asperger/asperger_as.htm
Asperger Syndrome is a developmental disorder
falling within the autistic spectrum affecting two-way social
interaction, verbal and nonverbal communication and a reluctance
to accept change, inflexibility of thought and to have all absorbing
narrow areas of interest. Individuals are usually extremely good
on rote memory skills (facts, figures, dates, times etc.) many
excel in math and science. There is a range of severity of symptoms
within the syndrome,
Key Features
The main areas affected by Asperger Syndrome are:
. Social interaction
. Communication
. Narrow Interests / Preoccupation's
. Repetitive routines / rituals, inflexibility
They often use language in a slightly odd
way and take literal meanings from what is read or heard. They
are happiest with routines and a structured environment, finding
it difficult to decide what to do they fall back on to their
preferred activities. They love praise, winning and being first,
but find loosing, imperfection and criticism very difficult to
take. Bad behavior often stems from an inability to communicate
their frustrations and anxieties.
Narrow Interests / Pre-occupations
One of the hallmarks of Asperger Syndrome is the child's preoccupation
(or obsession) with certain topics, often on themes of transport
- trains in particular-or computers, dinosaurs, maps etc. These
pre-occupations, usually in intellectual areas change over time
but not in intensity, and maybe pursued to the exclusion of other
activities.
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