Steiner's definitions

Peter on Race/Bradford on I AM

 

From: holderlin66
Date: Wed Apr 7, 2004 2:22 am
Subject: Peter on Race/Bradford on I AM

Peter Staudenmaier wrote:

Sure, you could say that. I wouldn't even necessarily quibble with much of it. The question is quite simply, why can't you say both of these things? Why can't you say that Steiner revealed the greatest history of the core of I AM research of all time, and that some of what he said on the topic was racist?

Peter

Bradford responds;

Well if you have a man with two brains, yes. My brain and your brain certainly. Then there is how Steiner built up the incredible, as you say, "greatest history of the core of I AM research of all time". Gathering immense field data Atlantis, migrations, retardation of clairvoyance, collecting the insights of those wide variety of different soul constitutions that had lost the ancient Atlantean clairvoyance; or who represented the new Loss and beginning of the flicker of the early I AM cognition in the physical world, without the ever present domination of the gods.

It is not a question, as you had put, of quantity but of the quality of the research. It is not how I had, or did, or formerly understood the reasoning of such statements and descriptions of Races, but how the whole puzzle began to make sense, as a whole, from the wholeness of Initation Science. I recognized that my intellect merely skimmed the surface of data.

Seeing how our reasoning, from a narrow perspective, could easily dismiss out of context, upon hearing some apparently bizarre or abstract idea that was hard to grasp. Steiner does say shocking things, but there are actual reasons and wisdom which we have been hardly prepared to deal with. However, Steiner's research begs me to admit that there were deeper insights that I could not have understood without Initiation Science. Nor can you. Here your limitations are as glaring as mine were.

Steiner presented insights that were Beings and he presented factors and aspects of Retardation that had not the same meaning as the narrow eye view everyone accepted and were satisfied with. The Scopes Trial revealed a new form of retardation, that divided Fundamental literalism against the Darwinian Science paradigms of evolution. But Steiner is way, way beyond that. His is truly grounded Initiation Science and methods of renewing and freeing the kernel of the I Am from etheric habits of thought.

There were Initiation insights into the Fall, that were no longer mythic or merely Biblical. The infection of our astral bodies with concepts that color and cloud the complex evolution of Mankind and in a Luciferic infection, bind people to certain fallen astral factors were illuminated with clarity. There were vaster issues of Initation Science that had entered under Hitler and specific destinies from Greece, Rome and the historical unfolding of what is now known as a common Cult of Personality (People Magazine-Stars) had arisen around the time of the Initation of Nero.

That is why Christ came at a specific point in history, where Personality could bind itself to lower or higher astral beings. Historically Personality and the Cult of Personality was also when the Personality of Jesus was infused with a God and Nero wanted Initation but only gained lower Luciferic infection of his Astral body. Things like this, I don't expect you to understand, but they expanded my horizons and startled me. Things you need to have startle you, so that you actually get a thinking education and not merely a dialectical education.

You know, I wondered why Racism and the hypocrisy of Dr. Steiner was your target. One question I had, was, is there an African American issue here, because being myself a humanist, I could see that the strong statements and descriptions of various groups that Steiner depicted, could call forth a fairly strong response. A response not guided by the growth of insight, but rather by the apparent strength of subjective reaction.

Lets take something you think you understand, but you don't. The Childhood, limber Etheric body issue of the African American has everything to do with how humanity relates to the etheric body and the limberness of the etheric body. The faith, hope that they imbued, through enforced slavery, into America, brought renewed MoTown, youthful vigor back into the dying Western psyche. Steiner's Observation of what was meant by Childhood was different than the Old Age etheric forces of the Red Man's Saturn penetrated etheric bodies.

The Native Americans were the Wise Eco Masters of minimalism, with no earthly Temples except the raw brotherhood of Nature, and their own warm intimacy of silent worship. They reflected the ancient Saturn forces... of Old Age. Part of your problem, of course is obvious, that etheric capacities in various groups, like the African Americans, have proven that they rejuvenated with limber childhood forces, the failing etheric bodies and culture of the West. Dried out Pilgrims would have crippled anything that America would have become. The African Americans were hijacked and forced to infuse the west with new childhood vigor.

If the RedNeck only wants to associate with his White Racism, he binds himself, not to his I AM development, but he even inbreeds himself into binding his spirit to failed and retarded concepts of Race. This is a sin against the etheric body and an untracked infection stemming from the Luciferic influences in the astral body. The RedNeck bigots himself and his I Am into repeating a connection over and over to a retarded view point, which he, as a Red Neck, a certified Jeff Foxworthy Redneck, a Rebel Confederate flag RedNeck, narrows and darkens his own connection to wider concepts of Self. This is not in dispute, this is exacting experience. Hating blacks, spic, jews, mexicans...gad.. the very name New York City is a dirty phrase.

This binding to ignorance puts a drag on not only the I AM but causes cultural retardation overall. Individual etheric bodies are darkened and gradually amass repeated errors unpenetrated by I Am thought. The etheric forces get sucked down into repeated race and the race, whoever or whatever collects these souls who refuse the I Am development, gradually decay and wind down, new immune issues, diseases, sickle cell etc.. arise from within the depleted etheric structure.

Humanity is harmed if one group, one race imagines that it is superior. If Nazi's thought that they and only they were to be bred, (again inbred, selective breeding, un-natural selection) they bound themselves to the retarding forces of this one race which was not only Nationalistic by etherically binding in an occult sense. Eventually the Poltical and ethnic isolation would cause a collapse of the immune system and specific racial diseases would reveal the flaw in such controlled ahrimanic selection techniques.

If humanity seeks to clone a perfect form of human, we again bind ourselves, without a concept of the I AM to a certain type. We will design a physical type, with an immune system built out of etheric selection. This New Man, this etherically selected type is grown from the bottom up and anchored to the bottom dregs of race, not to the high side of I AM development which reshapes, habits and reinserts itself into time. The I Am reshapes face, glint of eye, astral abilities, etheric habits. The I Am breaks addictions, insures that dysfunctions are not repeated in a family over and over. The I AM reshapes itself from within and is carried as further progress by the individual who reincarnates.

So your form of Racism is looking at the base substance, which I AM's use as needed for their further karmic directions. However this etheric vehicle can be stiff and unuseable if concepts like Racism, from RedNecks or Mormons or Hindu's become havens for one sided racial concepts. Therefore, humanity is in danger of not being able to understand Cloning and the Etheric relation to the I Am and creating a whole fallen etheric type that will not be able to be used by I Am's. These are things you cannot see, even if you attempt to understand them, you aren't mature enough either in science or Initiation insight to see how these things fit.

Because we would have to explore particular immune system and disease weaknesses that are typical in various races to find out where the etheric forces have been retarded or depleted.

For you, you place this Racial material as the key to determining what is ethical. I know you think that is what Steiner did, but that is not what Steiner did, that is what you are doing to Steiner. You leave out the dullness of repeated etheric errors or repeated and collected Luciferic astral errors.

You leave out current 1999 Ahrimanic selection methods that are arising and being continued in cloning from the Nazi's initial Ahrimanic science of selection. Where as, having learned to think deeper on the subject, it is the I AM that chooses the material and must penetrate the etheric, racial and hereditary model. Steiner researched so richly that our failure to grasp Initiation Science leaves us with the dregs of our common terms and education, bereft.

It is the I Am that chooses the parents and the deserved, unworked through etheric forces, which play heavily on the total etheric group if it collects souls who have thus far refused to take hold of the I Am. Whereas for you it would appear that Race chooses the I AM and somehow you think you can pin Steiner with this emphasis. The study of the various etheric ailments in races, specific immune problems..well I may just show you what foolishness your are attempting by putting physical race against etheric quality and etheric retardation.

For this entire discussion, no hint that etheric bodies and the I Am's in them, can find themselves in unworked through and progressively darker and stiffer karmic circumstances. The relation of etheric and immune system specificity in races has been avoided because of your ignorance. Your one sided focus on Race, puts you in the stagnant etheric body category. Whereas Steiner was not in such a category, He is just so large you cannot get your mind around it. Narrowed vision is where your critical intense focus leads. It leads to a focus on the wrong end of the scale and no knowledge of how souls retard the group etheric body of the race they are attracted to and the etheric quality of choice of parents they are attracted to.

But Steiner did not focus on the wrong end of the scale. He pointed out, he is the first to point out, that I AM's choose their parents and the karmic factors, or place of incarnation and the language and thought forces they need or have earned. Steiner turned Racism on its head. While looking over the whole aspect of what a binding attraction to one Race, one Religion, one Nationalistic pathology could mean, we have to take into consideration the quality of the etheric bodies and the damaging effect to the whole when people choose group opinion and prejudice over individually won insight. Why the Jews racial etheric body was attacked by Ahrimanic and Nazi elements was due to an antipathy to the imprint that the Christ had on this particular group through his I Am implosion into that racial group.

Now, following this line of argument, there is no question what so ever that certain aspects of radical Jewish nationalism, religious binding dogmas and marriage mandates of the blood and loyalties, lock many unsuspecting or karmically disposed souls to attract themselves towards weaker etheric bodies because they must needs have the support of the group ego that such a closed system supports. Why? Because they have not, and, in most cases, have refused to break free of the binding factors of dogma, race and blood, tied to religion. Souls find a weak pocket of etheric supported dogmatic beliefs where their I Am's have refused to do any work, but merely want to be told what to believe by their Daddy's or their Rabbi's and must fight like Woody Allen to dig their way through the thick Freudian morass of unilluminated etheric debris to the light of the I AM.

This is clearly a fatal attraction which gradually, as in RedNecks, inbreeding, or mandated marriages, thicken and weaken the etheric body, so that the I AM cannot and has refused to penetrate again and again over time. Now Steiner does not say Christianity is a religion, he calls The Christ a FACT. Christ is a Fact not a religion. Every I AM is a fact.

Animals have groups souls, they are not individuals. So we have to understand a tendency to drift back to group soul etheric, ego, crutches and retardation. Souls who bind themselves dogmatically to any specific race, diminishes the strength of their I Am and generally retards whatever group they are in by not contributing to the emancipation of their etheric body from the group. Etheric and racial types are there for I AM's to use and emancipate and lift the qualities to a higher region of soul. Etheric to Life Body. Races and etheric qualities, to Life body and the whole Etheric Earth.

Now all this that I have mentioned can be proven in individual cases. It amounts to this. You can build an understanding of Race on the basis of Group Soul animal behavior or Group Identity and you must include the unemancipated etheric and astral bodies. These factors gradually hinder, collect and trap certain souls into failed dogmatic beliefs and unuseable forces of thought which damage the entire etheric racial group. They bog down, break down, and begin to reveal specific racial immune problems.

Finally, we are moving towards a retarded large swath, a division of good and bad etheric racial issues. Those who have chosen time and time again to follow the Redneck paradigm, the Jeff Foxworthy class drop outs, who couldn't even laugh at themselves are constantly getting themselves attracted to this dense and hardening etheric field. All Ahrimanic Science will do is create a Cloned condition that freezes the mobility of a certain type or types of etheric body, because they, and you, never understood that an etheric base was even there.

Or, there are those who rise to brotherhood, I AM cosmopolitan cognition of I AM thinking, sharing and vision. They use their capacities and have individualized and emancipated their own etheric bodies, which will reshape their physical appearance through the nature of the inner content of their I Am's. They have awakened their astral and I Am's and these now work on remodeling, all the way down to the physical.

So that is how it can be understood from both sides. So yes, you can see it from the side of Race or from the side of the greatest contribution to the history and dynamics of the I Am, which leads one to the Mystery of Golgotha and the Emancipation of the human I Am from race and harvesting the Life Body from the Earth.

Bradford

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From: Peter Staudenmaier
Date: Wed Apr 7, 2004 10:21 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Peter on Race/Bradford on I AM

Hi Bradford, you wrote:

Gathering immense field data Atlantis, migrations, retardation of clairvoyance, collecting the insights of those wide variety of different soul constitutions that had lost the ancient Atlantean clairvoyance; or who represented the new Loss and beginning of the flicker of the early I AM cognition in the physical world, without the ever present domination of the gods.

I'm probably missing part of what you're getting at, but it sounds like you're not answering the question I asked. Let's stipulate that Steiner did all of the things you describe above. What would this have to do with whether some of his doctrines were racist?

It is not a question, as you had put, of quantity but of the quality of the research. It is not how I had, or did, or formerly understood the reasoning of such statements and descriptions of Races, but how the whole puzzle began to make sense, as a whole, from the wholeness of Initation Science.

Again, what does that have to do with the issue at hand? Some "descriptions of Races" are racist, and others are not. Why would it be the case that only the non-racist kind could possibly appear in tandem with "Initiation Science"?

Steiner presented insights that were Beings and he presented factors and aspects of Retardation that had not the same meaning as the narrow eye view everyone accepted and were satisfied with.

So what? The question is simply, were some of the insights he presented racist? Not were they shocking or were they wise, but just were they racist?

You know, I wondered why Racism and the hypocrisy of Dr. Steiner was your target.

I don't think that Steiner's racial doctrines were hypocritical. I do think that some of them were racist. Not sinful, not infected, but racist.

The etheric forces get sucked down into repeated race and the race, whoever or whatever collects these souls who refuse the I Am development, gradually decay and wind down

Are you saying that you agree with Steiner that souls who refuse the I Am development incarnate in certain decaying races but not in other progressing races?

I AM that chooses the material and must penetrate the etheric, racial and hereditary model.

Are you saying that you agree with Steiner that racial models are chosen according to spiritual criteria?

knowledge of how souls retard the group etheric body of the race they are attracted to

Are you saying that you agree with Steiner that stubborn souls, those that refuse Christ and racial progress, retard certain races?

Steiner turned Racism on its head.

Why do you believe that these notions turn racism on its head?

Why the Jews racial etheric body was attacked by Ahrimanic and Nazi elements was due to an antipathy to the imprint that the Christ had on this particular group through his I Am implosion into that racial group.

No comment.

Because they have not, and, in most cases, have refused to break free of the binding factors of dogma, race and blood, tied to religion.

Are you trying to say that you agree with Steiner that Jewry as a people is marked by these binding factors?

Souls who bind themselves dogmatically to any specific race, diminishes the strength of their I Am and generally retards whatever group they are in by not contributing to the emancipation of their etheric body from the group. Etheric and racial types are there for I AM's to use and emancipate and lift the qualities to a higher region of soul.

Yep, that's what Steiner taught. This kind of racial typology tied to spiritual evaluation is what the rest of us call racist.

Finally, we are moving towards a retarded large swath, a division of good and bad etheric racial issues.

So much for race disappearing in the future.

Peter

Peter Staudenmaier wrote:

Sure, you could say that. I wouldn't even necessarily quibble with much of it. The question is quite simply, why can't you say both of these things? Why can't you say that Steiner revealed the greatest history of the core of I AM research of all time, and that some of what he said on the topic was racist?

Now, following this line of argument, there is no question what so ever that certain aspects of radical Jewish nationalism, religious binding dogmas and marriage mandates of the blood and loyalties, lock many unsuspecting or karmically disposed souls to attract themselves towards weaker etheric bodies because they must needs have the support of the group ego that such a closed system supports. Why? Because they have not, and, in most cases, have refused to break free of the binding factors of dogma, race and blood, tied to religion. Souls find a weak pocket of etheric supported dogmatic beliefs where their I Am's have refused to do any work, but merely want to be told what to believe by their Daddy's or their Rabbi's and must fight like Woody Allen to dig their way through the thick Freudian morass of unilluminated etheric debris to the light of the I AM.

These factors gradually hinder, collect and trap certain souls into failed dogmatic beliefs and unuseable forces of thought which damage the entire etheric racial group. They bog down, break down, and begin to reveal specific racial immune problems.

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From: holderlin66
Date: Wed Apr 7, 2004 1:37 pm
Subject: Re: Peter on Race/Bradford on I AM

Peter Staudenmaier wrote:

Are you saying that you agree with Steiner that souls who refuse the I Am development incarnate in certain decaying races but not in other progressing races?

Bradford comments;

Okay before we venture into this and other questions I would like you to Quid Pro Quo me. Please, I layed out in the first Peter/Brad topic of this heading, what I have come to so far.

Could you recap for me, summarize what I gave in that first long piece and then, Give me what your extended thought process is in what you believe. Fine if it's with Spirit or without spirit, however you wish to express it. Just what is your standpoint, and not just one sentence. I am a big boy I can handle a whole two paragraphs of your thought.

Please what is your standpoint - temporarily and ongoing? Please Quid Pro Quo me. (Brief summary of what I brought and then an extended grasp of your thoughts from your standpoint)

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From: Peter Staudenmaier
Date: Wed Apr 7, 2004 7:38 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Peter on Race/Bradford on I AM

Hi Bradford,

as usual, I'm not entirely sure what you're asking, but I'll give it my best shot. My standpoint is that the notion of higher and lower races, advanced and decadent races, spiritually regressing and spiritually progressing races, is patently racist. Steiner incorporated this idea into his anthroposophical doctrines about racial evolution. These doctrines, in turn, serve a crucial function within his broader theory of cosmic development.

Lots of people reject the whole notion of racial evolution and its supposed spiritual significance, for excellent reasons, as incompatible with spiritual awareness. I am one of those people. I think that race has absolutely nothing to do with people's spiritual state. Spiritual traits are spread evenly across all racial groups. They do not concentrate in specific racial groups, much less do specific racial groups represent determinate stages of spiritual growth and maturity. What do you think?


Peter

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From: holderlin66
Date: Thu Apr 8, 2004 8:50 pm
Subject: Re: Peter on Race/Bradford on I AM

Peter Staudenmaier wrote:

...as usual, I'm not entirely sure what you're asking, but I'll give it my best shot. My standpoint is that the notion of higher and lower races, advanced and decadent races, spiritually regressing and spiritually progressing races, is patently racist. Steiner incorporated this idea into his anthroposophical doctrines about racial evolution. These doctrines, in turn, serve a crucial function within his broader theory of cosmic development.

Lots of people reject the whole notion of racial evolution and its supposed spiritual significance, for excellent reasons, as incompatible with spiritual awareness. I am one of those people. I think that race has absolutely nothing to do with people's spiritual state. Spiritual traits are spread evenly across all racial groups. They do not concentrate in specific racial groups, much less do specific racial groups represent determinate stages of spiritual growth and maturity. What do you think?

Bradford comments;

You may not remember this encounter between Geraldine Ferraro and GHB. But you are one patronizing SOB and I don't need to be patronized to.

GERALDINE FERRARO: Let me just say, first of all, that I almost resent, Vice President Bush, your patronizing attitude that you have to teach me about foreign policy.

PRESIDENT BUSH: Patronize...

JIM LEHRER: Patronize, don't pat-

PRESIDENT BUSH: Don't patronize, don't patronize me. I mean there was this...

Here was my actual request:

Please what is your standpoint - temporarily and ongoing? Please Quid Pro Quo me. (Brief summary of what I brought and then an extended grasp of your thoughts from your standpoint)

Well I ain't normally a nit picky person, but in your attention hungry craveness, I'll make an exception. You didn't repeat or sum up what I gave and on top of it... here is what you Patronized me with.

5, count them FIVE, Race or Racial, and again reminding all of us of your RACIAL Standpoint, you use variations on this word 5 times in the first paragraph. That is only RACE or Racial in nearly every sentence and sometimes twice in the four sentences. Try reading the sentences and saying Race or Racial loudly when ever you come to one.

5, count them, FIVE, uses of Race or Racial in the second paragraph. 10 uses of Race or Racial in a mere 10 sentences. I guess, you need to remind me that your thought process, is locked, double sealed and showing no possible leaks, when it comes to RACISM or RACIAL or RACES.

This was and is still a sincere request. The request was again, Sum up what I gave, briefly in your own words, with my first post on Peter/Brad and then add your opinion in at least 2 paragraphs. I mean your own view in two paragrapshs so it doesn't sound like somebody practicing bleeping a horn, when ever I come to the R-word.

"My standpoint is that the notion of higher and lower HONK, advanced and decadent HONK, spiritually regressing and spiritually progressing HONK, is patently HONK. Steiner incorporated this idea into his anthroposophical doctrines about HONK-HONK evolution. These doctrines, in turn, serve a crucial function within his broader theory of cosmic development.

Lots of people reject the whole notion of HONK evolution and its supposed spiritual significance, for excellent reasons, as incompatible with spiritual awareness. I am one of those people. I think that HONK has absolutely nothing to do with people's spiritual state. Spiritual traits are spread evenly across all HONK groups. They do not concentrate in specific HONK groups, much less do specific HONK=HONK groups represent determinate stages of spiritual growth and maturity."

Well at least I got two paragraph and I saw how cautious you were, like shaking someones hand with an electric buzzer in it. No, you don't have to wear the Bozo outfit, HONK. Just perhaps put some real life into the exchange. Otherwise I might worry if you are not some electronic HONK hallucination of your own making. Go on Peter, do it right, give it a shot.

Sum up what I gave in my rather long post... what I meant or what you thought I meant and than give me two paragraphs, without super glue on it.

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From: Peter Staudenmaier
Date: Fri Apr 9, 2004 8:45 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Peter on Race/Bradford on I AM

Hi Bradford, you wrote:

I don't need to be patronized to.

I'm afraid I can't agree. You do need to be patronized to on this issue, Bradford. Along with a remarkable number of your fellow anthroposophists, you have a very shaky grasp of the history of racism and antisemitism, and you have no sense of how common it is for lofty spiritual ideals to go hand in hand with these unfortunate phenomena. Hence you have conspicuous trouble placing your own belief system in context, and you thus systematically misunderstand the criticisms that non-anthroposophists sometimes lodge against various aspects of Steiner's work, such as his racial and ethnic theories. Until you take the time to learn more about all this, other people will continue to patronize to you about it.

you use variations on this word 5 times in the first paragraph.

Yep. It's a paragraph about race. Maybe you could explain why you find this peculiar.

add your opinion in at least 2 paragraphs. I mean your own view in two paragrapshs

That's what I just did. I take you disagree with what I wrote? You think that the notion of higher and lower races, advanced and decadent races, spiritually regressing and spiritually progressing races, is not racist? You think that race has some significant correlation to people's spiritual state? You think that spiritual traits are not spread evenly across all racial groups? You think that spiritual traits concentrate in specific racial groups, and that specific racial groups represent determinate stages of spiritual growth and maturity? Do tell.

Peter

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From: holderlin66
Date: Fri Apr 9, 2004 1:46 pm
Subject: Re: Peter on Race/Bradford on I AM

Bradford comments;

Okay before we venture into this and other questions I would like you to Quid Pro Quo me. Please, I layed out in the first Peter/Brad topic of this heading, what I have come to so far.

Could you recap for me, summarize what I gave in that first long piece and then, Give me what your extended thought process is in what you believe. Fine if it's with Spirit or without spirit, however you wish to express it. Just what is your standpoint, and not just one sentence. I am a big boy I can handle a whole two paragraphs of your thought.

Please what is your standpoint - temporarily and ongoing? Please Quid Pro Quo me. (Brief summary of what I brought and then an extended grasp of your thoughts from your standpoint)

Peter in his Patronizing snideness reluctantly responds;

Summary:

You think that the notion of higher and lower races, advanced and decadent races, spiritually regressing and spiritually progressing races, is not racist? You think that race has some significant correlation to people's spiritual state? You think that spiritual traits are not spread evenly across all racial groups? You think that spiritual traits concentrate in specific racial groups, and that specific racial groups represent determinate stages of spiritual growth and maturity? Do tell.

Beliefs in 2 paragraphs:

My standpoint is that the notion of higher and lower races, advanced and decadent races, spiritually regressing and spiritually progressing races, is patently racist. Steiner incorporated this idea into his anthroposophical doctrines about racial evolution. These doctrines, in turn, serve a crucial function within his broader theory of cosmic development.

Lots of people reject the whole notion of racial evolution and its supposed spiritual significance, for excellent reasons, as incompatible with spiritual awareness. I am one of those people. I think that race has absolutely nothing to do with people's spiritual state. Spiritual traits are spread evenly across all racial groups. They do not concentrate in specific racial groups, much less do specific racial groups represent determinate stages of spiritual growth and maturity. What do you think?

Bradford;

Well as outlined in the very first Peter/Bradford discussion I said that Steiner turned Racism on its Head. In fact, I went so far as to clearly outline how etheric and hereditary determinism can influence and drag down culture if souls who borrow etheric racial substance do not penetrate it with Individual I Am spiritual strength.

This individual I AM spiritual strength first wrestles with the hereditary model of the etheric body in childhood illnesses. If fevers, pox, mumps and various etheric ailments are prevented through vaccinations, encounters with the etheric model is pressed downward into the physical and can prevent the Child from reconfiguring their etheric vehicle and cause later adult ailments.

When we get our heriditary etheric model, landing in a culture, language and specific family, the I AM begins to reshape the substance so that it can be used by the I AM later.

Spiritual traits are spread evenly across all racial groups.

The individual I Am brings in their own specific traits which must be remodeled and re-fit to suit the higher needs of the incarnating I Am. It is a far higher evaluation of Etheric Qualities of Race to see the wonderful differences that various groups carry. These groups carry, etheric racial groups, carry in their foundations different qualities. The I AM chooses vehicles, parents, hereditary streams and reworks them to suit the individual spiritual capacities that they require.

The Angelic community and the Archangelic communities experience how deeply the I AM had penetrated spiritually and ethically into the various higher soul conditions. Those specific core I AM conditions are Sentient Soul - Intellectual Soul - Consciousness Soul capacities. The I AM has carried their inner idealism, and spiritual development, as a cohesive impression to the Angels. The Angelic and Archangelic communities register this I Am cohesion or they don't.

If they don't the soul does not easily win the struggle against language, prejudice, religious dogma and thinking capacities from out of the etheric model. The etheric and racial model dominates the I AM and here we begin to trace dysfunction, addictive materialism and failed thinking.

Suppose Siddhartha never ventured out of his Father's plush kingdom? Never asked a question as to why there is death, disease, Old Age, rich people and poor people? His Father's etheric control did not want him to see anything bad, decaying, disintegrating, dying, but rather remain in a perpetually undeveloped Paradisical state, a Pre-Fall state of hereditary illusion. Such an event can happen if the child fails to meet the etheric model with his own Identity and remodel, with childhood illnesses his or her etheric body. They gain no observation of their double and remain with one half of themselves enmeshed in dysfuction.

The I Am breaks free of the model provided by the parents and Siddhartha is able to discover his I AM capacities and break through dysfunction, dogma, pampering, death, karma, vision and after hundreds of Siddhartha's incarnations, review of the entire pattern of his incarnations, and break free into one of the First Born with fully developed higher capacities. An Early graduate of the real School that the Michael represents.

The Etheric-Racial model of the Buddha and the force of the accumulated widom of his I Am allows a flood of strength to infuse the whole of a culture through the strength of this one I Am. Millions are nourished, not only by the biography of Buddha, but because his Etheric Life Truths, rayed out as actual substance through millions of souls.

Steiner incorporated this idea into his anthroposophical doctrines about racial evolution. These doctrines, in turn, serve a crucial function within his broader theory of cosmic development.

O'contraire. Steiner researched, defended, outlined and made the basis of his scientific research the Fact of the I AM. The I AM as a fact is the core reason of everything we see in Nature and every spiritual experience that any human being has ever had.

Steiner Turned Racism on its head. By locating the I Am and how humanity can develop the I Am and progress to ever higher and higher stages, he revealed in the process how Physical, Etheric, Astral and I AM were the entire contradiction to the origin of matter and the big bang theory or Darwinian natural selection. Steiner rightly turned all this on its head. Mainly retarded thinking is attracted to big bang and Darwinian selection theories.

Steiner advocated, researched and presented findings that are indisputable that Nature, chemistry, matter and the atomic table, the creation and distrubtion of rocks, plants, animals and humans were rhythmically created just so the core of the I AM could unfold.

Steiner turned Racism on its head. There is no big bang theory. There are prepared vehicles so that the I AM can experience the Physical world with the senses. So that the I Am can experience inwardly the Life and Etheric body of the Plants. So that through his passions and his love he or she can experience the vehicle of his/her Astral body, changing and transmuting these deeply rooted vehicles into Evolution of the Earth itself. In other words creation and evolution has a purpose and a mission.

In other words racial determinism is subjectively or medically induced and educationaly promoted. Man is not a by product of the Earth but the Earth Condition was made for the I AM of man. Human Beings will transmute their astral and animal forces into Spirit Self. Human Beings well transmute their etheric hereditary, medical, parenting skills, plant remedies and agricultural wisdom of every species over the Earth, into what Buddha achieved as Life Spirit, that spread like a healing balm over the distant East, before the Christ Event had even happened.

This in itself revealed that humanity could win for themselves, higher development because the entire experience of the Earth and the Karma of humanity was based on the development of the I AM. Then the I AM entered. Not just a little flickering I AM, but the Logos spoken of in the John Gospel, made the I Am the full fact of the entire reason for Earth Evolution and touched down, or splashed down on this Home World of ours.

Why? Because at the Mystery of Golgotha the full atomic table, the reconfiguring, mastery of the Music of the Spheres and the Being who was the corner stone, foundation stone, among the Gods, the I AM itself carried Earth's karma to the Hill of Golgotha and defeated the death taint, down to the last dregs of matter. That does not mean that failed science and failed humans cannot poison the Earth with nuclear death. It does mean that the path to the I AM must be a conscious one.

That final phase was winning and reshaping the entire physical, genetic model of Man, so that the I AM could reproduce it or dissolve it at will. Here we see the true meanings of "A Dead Man Walking". In the film, "The Green Mile" we see what a fragment of the Etheric Body of Christ could do. This tiny movie fragment reveals the emancipation that Buddha fully achieved. But what Buddha achieved was what humanity is destined to achieve and more.

So Steiner turned Racism on its head, left it in the dust and revealed the mighty mystery of the Etheric Earth and the Etheric Christ that is living in every plant, in every atom of matter, but can only be ignited if we overcome Racism. This is what Steiner, nay, the Stunning Gift of the Science of the Spirit, gave to mankind in one of the darkest periods of human catastrophe. I mean, would you call the timing of this 20th century event, an accident? A footnote? You would, but you have already have proven that you haven't won cognition, merely intellectual cunning.

It is clear to me Peter that the focus on Racism is really, first of all, it is how the Intellectual Soul transforms the Etheric body. That is the job of the Intellectual Soul. Your pathological focus on Racism hinges on the very substance of Eco-System, and the Etheric mysteries of Earth and the Green Movement, which is all of the Etheric body. Your questions, your pathology is typical when you find that Racism and Etheric and Green and Life Body of the Earth, go right down to the core of your I Am. You are knotted in the Intellectual Soul. You have come across a region in the Intellectual Soul that is one of the core riddles of humanity. But it eludes you.

Because you fail to get your arms around the Etheric Body. Even if the Etheric World community of Rainbow Races and the Greening of the Earth had everything to do with the human ability to Heal, you still canot see it. Healing, Etheric miracles, Issues of the Blood...well, that is a little beyond you, but at least Biodynamic Gardening proves that SPiritual Science penetrated the mysteries of the Etheric Earth where all the models that you claim are Racial exist.

That is your question. What is the Etheric forms and differences spread out in plants and humans and what are their qualities and can Peter Staudenmaier penetrate this enigma with his Intellectual Soul? The answer is YOU CANNOT! You already have and are on the road to so knotting up your Intellectual Soul with failed materialistic ideas, that you must be excluded from even understanding the passion of your own question. Ideas you say? Mere Ideas you say? It is the Aristotle puzzle pieces of the Intellect of how these IDEAS key code themselves into the realities and facts of nature and Earth Evolution.

Believe me, Aristotle, the greatest Intellectual Soul with his 10 categories struggled to piece the riddle together. His efforts, struggles and having his work go Lost for 100's of years, before being dug out by some Arab, were imprinted deeply into Aristotle's I AM. You would be stunned with what all that Intellectual Soul effort by Aristotle produced and the wisdom it finally produced in the entelechy of Aristotle. Stunned, startled and wounded after several incarnations of stunning work, Aristotle comes shining through.

But Peter, barring some destiny reversal, some trigger that releases your intellectual question, you are headed for etheric stagnation.

...................................................................................................................................

From: Peter Staudenmaier
Date: Sat Apr 10, 2004 8:56 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Peter on Race/Bradford on I AM

Good morning Bradford,

it is certainly true that most of what you have written here eludes me, and I very likely am headed for etheric stagnation, whatever that might be. But I do find two extremely interesting strands in your non-reply:

On the one hand, you flatly deny that spiritual traits are spread evenly across all racial groups, and you apparently believe, along with Steiner, that specific racial groups represent determinate stages of
spiritual growth and maturity. (You also seem to have a rather ambivalent attitude toward what you call "racial determinism", but it isn't really clear what you're getting at there.) On the other hand, you plaintively insist that Steiner turned racism on its head.

In your mind, then, overcoming racism requires attending to the particular spiritual qualities represented by each racial group, recognizing the true spiritual significance of racial markers, and slotting each race into its proper cosmic evolutionary stage. Is that indeed your view? Looking forward to your reply,

Peter

...................................................................................................................................

From: holderlin66
Date: Mon Apr 26, 2004 12:33 pm
Subject: Re: Peter on Race/Bradford on I AM

Peter Staudenmaier wrote: [in the thread "Reading and Falsehoods"]

This is not how I read the Charles Mann article, and I'm wondering what others made of it. I don't see any "rather than" argument in his piece, or certainly in Henry Dobyns' work. To my mind, there is no question that enormous numbers of Native Americans died from diseases that arrived with European settlers, particularly smallpox and typhus. But this scarcely means that there was no genocide, much less that Native Americans "had to die out". Enormous numbers of Europeans died during the Black Plague, for example, but European populations then recovered, rather than being forced off their lands by invading colonists who weren't shy about relying on tactics of wholesale slaughter. Obviously terrible epidemics do not mean that specific ethnic or racial groups "had to die out". More to the point, it is hard to see what any of this might have to do with "racial character".

Peter

Bradford compliments;

Well Peter, that was the richest download of actual thought content you have given, except for your first entry outline of terms. Now that was rich, juicy and had substance. What a wonderful feeling to actually hear a thinking human say something that lives slightly above the water level. Besides you only used this little thingy once.

More to the point, it is hard to see what any of this might have to do with "racial character".

Previously we discussed it this way:

Bradford:

Because we would have to explore particular immune system and disease weaknesses that are typical in various races to find out where the etheric forces have been retarded or depleted.

The study of the various etheric ailments in races, specific immune problems..well I may just show you what foolishness your are attempting by putting physical race against etheric quality and etheric retardation.

Now all this that I have mentioned can be proven in individual cases. These factors gradually hinder, collect and trap certain souls into failed dogmatic beliefs and unuseable forces of thought which damage the entire etheric racial group. They bog down, break down, and begin to reveal specific racial immune problems.

Current discussion of the theme:

We come to examination that you express so confidently 'that of course there is no question that', from a medical and a Spiritual Science pov; greenhouse etheric bodies, not only divided by oceans, but etheric bodies, held back from a region, that had not yet experienced the march of civilization, that had brought with it, massive changes in the etheric, astral and vital intellectual foundations of cognition, needed to be swept into the conditions which we all now face and share. The preparation for all humanity to slowly get on the same page of I AM development is still in destructive development.

Prior to what we all now face in modern education and medicine, there were etheric pockets of geogrpahic regions that were untouched, virgin, and had not been exposed to the onslaught of what Islam wants to call the great rolling wave of Satan.

America as it sweeps over the globe is updating everyone and some religious groups reluctantly.The Information Age and the new "Gattica" and "Blade Runner" and the SUV Age is considered by some to be an unholy nightmare. Enough so that Iran and Islam can call America the Great Satan. This compares to a new form of culturally epidemic disease of politics divorced from brotherhood sweeping toward the Islamics. Our word is not good enough, neither are contracts and lies, which is bearing down in the old market places that you can still visit in Damascus. In Islam there are etheric repititions of prayer nearly five times a day and a general Luciferic astral refusal to come to terms with the Ahrimanic onslaught coming out of the west.

In terms of incarnational history the Arab aspect of the sciences have already brought forth a vast interior migration of thought, carried by individuals such as Woodrow Wilson, deep into the west. In other words, Arabistic thought forces were used to build the foundations of western science and politics. But they have now returned in virally potent new form that souls see severing truth and brotherhood for contracts and lies. The U.S. handling of the Palastinians is one huge pocket of lies, unfairness and crippling brotherhood. The dictators that the U.S. placed in power through out the middle east were supported tyrants. Humanitarian brotherhood from the west has taken the shape of fully viral Ahrimanic lie. It is an infection that Islam will resist and we will willingly tear the region apart.

But we have to reckon with the past conditions of the Polynesians, Hawaiians, Mayans and migratory tent life of Native Americans, as warmly primitive and in much that is discussed, Polynesians and others as bearing a Luciferic Paradisial greenhouse etheric effects in their etheric bodies. These isolated pockets experienced a shock to their etheric forces as western intelligence and technological development swept in on them.

What kind of shocks come with guns, or bearded white men that invaded the Mayans? The Mayans thought they were gods and horses, who the heck ever saw such big dogs? They had no understanding of the full impact of such a meeting left over from the migrations east out of Atlantis to the confronatations and lust for Gold as humanity advanced westward. The old Atlantis construct is not unlike the meeting of the Pilgrims with the Native Americans. Plus the Conquestidors had those shining helmets and the Mayan prophets had scared the crap out of them to expect such a manifestation to appear as new gods. So the Mayans expected a Cortez god revelation to arrive... and thsee prophecies were going two ways.

One was ancient Atlantean left overs, and that applies to many of the etheric pockets scattered around in the far West. Memory of disease and memory in the etheric body, is what gives the race and etheric forces cognition and maturity, as well as the ability to fight off a disease or absorb the rush of mechanics, inventions, gun powder, giant ships etc.

If there was no memory in the white cells, no previous etheric insight in these pockets of etheric geography, no memory of immune system defenses could have been built. Now they are there and we examine history and the Conquest a bit differently. The military today look upon the epidemiology of the etheric forces as a way to use biological warfare.

The other factor was the catastrophe of the dark instincts, greed, avarice and lusts that had not even been fully conscious in the isolated conditions in the west. Except for the Aztec TAOTL being meeting the Philip the Fair and Spanish Inquistion being as a concrete bridge from ancient Atlantis to modern Ahriman. I'm sure the prophets didn't expect a whole wave of 'civilized depravity' as their new gods. They might have expected wise Initiates, but that utterly failed with the infection of greed and avarice from the Church.

But still the Native American and the Canadian and Inuit tribes of the Arctic are still subject to Alcoholism and addiction to Junk that Western culture produces. It remains a lethal addiction, as did the Native Americans in dealing with their depressive soul conditions when the "Little Big Man" and Custer crew swept in. Meaning that immunity and self control that builds not only the Intellectual ability into the foundations of the I AM, but also the spiritual immunity of control of the I Am, so that the sheaths are not subject to becoming blind consumer animal rodents, must be built up through deepened I AM penetration and cognition. This builds new forces to face ever more conscious grasp of Etheric, Astral and I AM bodies and self correct Luciferic and Ahrimanic unconscious influences. EcoChristology is self correcting esoteric development.

Alaska itself reflects an isolated pocket that still is impacted strongly by all forms of addiction and these pockets reveal untransformed weaknesses in the astral, thought, I AM and etheric bodies faced with the overwhelming impact of western civilization. One can look into the trials and tribulations of the Inuit and understand how these various etheric issues are still reverberating today.

How we account for the fact that the Mongol Hordes ran riot in their instincts also reveals a flaw in your understanding of karma and illness. It shatters the idea that everything is equal. This race or that race all bear equal soul conditions. Not so. Obviously everything is not equal. Beings in the astral body are now acting as retarded forces in the Relgious Islamic culture, the Fundamental Christiian culture and Judaism.

We are standing at the brink of just how destructive these retardation forces in the soul can be. They are not individualized yet, but still subject to retarded paradigms. The west is imposing, by all the numbers, particularly those numbers that show who uses the worlds major resources in glut and greed, the West impinges and imposes still on further pockets of souls who have failed to cope with brotherhood and EcoChristology. Whole groups bear a differnt soul perspective than loving Dialectical materialism or supporting failed thought forms of EcoFascism.

Here we arrive not merely at racial theory but a clash in the spread of Ahrimanic culture into cultures who have failed to take up the strengthening of I AM inner development and brotherhood. Word has not got out and this is a Michael School failure to some degree.

Blatant Nationalism, and religious dogma have come to the center of how Arabistic thought in the west, Christless thought in the West, Ahrimanic Science, has come back to roost in the region where Arabistic Science was carried through incarnation after incarnation into the far west. New forms of hatred, racism and ethnic/religious cleansing is being undertaken with the same stupidity as the Crusades and the Conquestidors. It is a complete failure of thinking and understanding history that produces such atrocity.

Frances Bacon and Darwin arose as the founders and carriers of Arabistic Science. Their Karma as individuals has been traced by Steiner. Steiner arose as the bearer of I AM cognition which penetrates with Conscious strengthening of the etheric and immune system, through clarity, by penetrating into cultural retardation and deepening the grasp over the Etheric Life Body of the Earth and her various blending of cultures and races.

The current infections of astral bodies and the retardation of I AM clarity into Politics, bioEthics and the Christ event as Fact has revealed Luciferic pockets and Ahrimanic pockets of thinking that continue to fail to enter through the gates of the I AM. This failure of penetration leads to new confronations, no longer based on race, only as a secondary issue, but more to do with Ahrimanic and Luciferic intentions to block the hearts and minds from elaborating healthy EcoChristianity through the approach to self correction and I AM cognition in every individual.

Steiner's healthy EcoChristology, by any other name, brotherhood for instance, reflects the dire hope of the Angelic community working feverishly against the Ahrimanic deceptions in the soul life of humanity. If the deception of Dialectical materialism spreads it will literally sever humanity from the moral sphere of the Gods. Once again the intention of the Earth, the mission of the Earth, is not the elimination of humanity but rather the individual work of Harvesting the Life Body of the Earth. That which you do to the least of these in the etheric body, we do to the whole Etheric Life body of the Earth.

We are currently engaged in EcoTerrorism world wide.

Aspects of the Great Satan

...................................................................................................................................

From: Peter Staudenmaier
Date: Mon Apr 26, 2004 6:32 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Peter on Race/Bradford on I AM

Hi Bradford, you wrote:

Because we would have to explore particular immune system and disease weaknesses that are typical in various races to find out where the etheric forces have been retarded or depleted.

Why do you believe that there are any particular immune system and disease weaknesses that are typical of entire races as such?

These factors gradually hinder, collect and trap certain souls into failed dogmatic beliefs and unuseable forces of thought which damage the entire etheric racial group.

Which etheric racial groups do you have in mind?

They bog down, break down, and begin to reveal specific racial immune problems.

Such as?

Peter

...................................................................................................................................

From: eyecueco
Date: Mon Apr 26, 2004 11:12 pm
Subject: Re: Peter on Race/Bradford on I AM

--- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, Peter Staudenmaier wrote:

Hi Bradford, you wrote:

Because we would have to explore particular immune system and disease weaknesses that are typical in various races to find out where the etheric forces have been retarded or depleted.

Why do you believe that there are any particular immune system and disease weaknesses that are typical of entire races as such?

Wonder why Peter doesn't believe this possible?

What about sickle-cell anemia, for an example?

"This disease is an inherited blood disorder that occurs almost exclusively in blacks. It is caused by an abnormality in the pigment hemoglobin, the oxygen-carrying component of the red blood cells. The defective hemoglobinÑcalled hemoglobin SÑcauses the red blood cells to become rigid and "sickle" shaped rather than flexible and round. These deformed cells are brittle and easily destroyed, leading to the symptoms of sickle-cell disease."

Race and Disease

...................................................................................................................................

From: holderlin66
Date: Tue Apr 27, 2004 8:52 am
Subject: Re: Peter on Race/Bradford on I AM

eyecueco wrote:

Wonder why Peter doesn't believe this possible?

What about sickle-cell anemia, for an example?

"This disease is an inherited blood disorder that occurs almost exclusively in blacks. It is caused by an abnormality in the pigment hemoglobin, the oxygen-carrying component of the red blood cells. The defective hemoglobinÑcalled hemoglobin SÑcauses the red blood cells to become rigid and "sickle" shaped rather than flexible and round. These deformed cells are brittle and easily destroyed, leading to the symptoms of sickle-cell disease."

Dear Paulina;

Ever feel like you got a gig to tap dance in front of an audience of amutees? But it is sufficient unto the daylight to know that having spent more time training and tracking the research validity of the Etheric body as the basis for any physical issue of race, I apparently stand with a couple of us, who must have read Dr. Steiner and faintly understood him and, if wonders be told, actually looked deeply into current issues of sciences.

The etheric forces of races were formerly under the vast Rainbow attributes that I have harped on for the Anthroposophically Impaired reader, who still doesn't get it. Nor when we measure the colors, days of the week or the etheric and racial attributes down to the immune system, we still get, well opposition. What? Did I expect agreement from compass less Mominialistic gamers?

Politically Correct soul blinders.

http://www.sallysatelmd.com/

"This is Sally Satel's opening salvo in her brilliantly waged war against the forces of political correctness. Drawing on a wealth of information, much of it never revealed before, PC, M.D. documents for the first time what happens when the tenets of political correctness— including victimology, multiculturalism and the rejection of fixed truths and individual autonomy—are allowed to enter the fortress of medicine. Consider these examples:

A professor at the Harvard School of Public Health teaches her students that racial discrimination causes high blood pressure among blacks—an unsubstantiated and dangerous "truth."

Former psychiatric patients, calling themselves "consumer-survivors," condemn the health care system for violating their human rights. They are on a crusade to "limit the powers of psychiatry by making consumers full partners in diagnosis and treatment."

Nurses charge that they are so oppressed by the male-dominated medical system that they can't give their patients optimal care.

The consequences of putting politics before health are far-reaching, argues Satel. It wastes taxpayer money on bogus research and diverts resources that could be used to discover authentic causes of suffering, provide proven therapies, and rigorously investigate new ones. PC, M.D. is a powerful wake-up call to the medical profession and to patients, who are the ultimate victims of these disturbing trends."

[ This same waste counts on the moral account for those who spend their time linking fascism to Anthropsophy. It is diddling with the Angels precious time]

"Saunders recently presented a study showing that African Americans respond better to a new drug, eplerenone, that selectively blocks aldosterone, a hormone that causes the body to retain sodium, whereas ACE inhibitors and ARBs do not fully restrict the hormone's action. At the meeting of the International Society for Hypertension in Blacks in Miami this year, the Association of Black Cardiologists presented a similar heart failure study specifically targeted to African Americans in which the nitric oxide-enhancing drug BiDil was found to have a significant effect only in blacks, who some believe to have low nitric oxide activity. But even given these results, Saunders cautioned against categorical assumptions that race is a determining factor. 'We're not talking about race as a genetic situation, we're talking about it as a marker,' he said.

Others, however, firmly maintain that taking race into account could improve diagnosis and treatment of disease. Physician and ethicist Sally Satel, in her article 'I am a Racially Profiling Doctor' in The New York Times Magazine, builds a case that taking into account the skin colour of her patients improves her diagnosis and treatment. When prescribing Prozac, for example, she starts an African American patient on a lower dose than a white patient, 'in part because clinical experience and pharmacological research show that many blacks metabolise antidepressants more slowly than Caucasians and Asians. As a result, levels of the medication can build up and make side-effects more likely.' Skin colour itself is not the issue, Satel explains, but 'the evolutionary history indicated by skin colour.'

'Skin colour can convey some useful information beyond skin colour, e.g. a higher risk of sickle cell disease or a higher likelihood of response to certain hypertensives,' acknowledges Catarina Kiefe, from the Department of Medicine at the University of Alabama in Birmingham. "

...................................................................................................................................

From: winters_diana
Date: Tue Apr 27, 2004 1:03 pm
Subject: Re: Peter on Race/Bradford on I AM

Bradford referred us to this web site:

http://www.sallysatelmd.com/

and then he quotes:

"This is Sally Satel's opening salvo in her brilliantly waged war against the forces of political correctness." <snip>

then Bradford writes:

[ This same waste counts on the moral account for those who spend their time linking fascism to Anthropsophy. It is diddling with the Angels precious time]

He then pastes in another quote, which follows below. I can't find this second quote on the Satel web site. Is that where it is from, Bradford? Can you direct me? If not, where did you find the material below? Can you please give us the link? thanks!

Diana

"Saunders recently presented a study showing that African Americans respond better to a new drug, eplerenone, that selectively blocks aldosterone, a hormone that causes the body to retain sodium, whereas ACE inhibitors and ARBs do not fully restrict the hormone's action. At the meeting of the International Society for Hypertension in Blacks in Miami this year, the Association of Black Cardiologists presented a similar heart failure study specifically targeted to African Americans in which the nitric oxide-enhancing drug BiDil was found to have a significant effect only in blacks, who some believe to have low nitric oxide activity. But even given these results, Saunders cautioned against categorical assumptions that race is a determining factor. 'We're not talking about race as a genetic situation, we're talking about it as a marker,' he said.

Others, however, firmly maintain that taking race into account could improve diagnosis and treatment of disease. Physician and ethicist Sally Satel, in her article 'I am a Racially Profiling Doctor' in The New York Times Magazine, builds a case that taking into account the skin colour of her patients improves her diagnosis and treatment. When prescribing Prozac, for example, she starts an African American patient on a lower dose than a white patient, 'in part because clinical experience and pharmacological research show that many blacks metabolise antidepressants more slowly than Caucasians and Asians. As a result, levels of the medication can build up and make side-effects more likely.' Skin colour itself is not the issue, Satel explains, but 'the evolutionary history indicated by skin colour.'

'Skin colour can convey some useful information beyond skin colour, e.g. a higher risk of sickle cell disease or a higher likelihood of response to certain hypertensives,' acknowledges Catarina Kiefe, from the Department of Medicine at the University of Alabama in Birmingham. "

...................................................................................................................................

From: holderlin66
Date: Tue Apr 27, 2004 3:12 pm
Subject: Re: Peter on Race/Bradford on I AM

winters_diana wrote:

I can't find this second quote on the Satel web site. Is that where it is from, Bradford? Can you direct me?

Diana;

I hope you appreciate irony. Not that I haven't very enjoyed the discussions via learning letters, shapes and etheric building blocks to the childs soul life.. but here is reminder about Political Correctness. You remember the following sentence well I have another sentence for you to try on in the changing room, and see if it fits?

Former psychiatric patients, calling themselves "consumer-survivors," condemn the health care system for violating their human rights. They are on a crusade to "limit the powers of psychiatry by making consumers full partners in diagnosis and treatment."

Bradford might check his irony meter here:

"Former Waldorf parents, calling themselves "Waldorf Critics," condemn and undermine the foundation of the Waldorf system of education for violating their politically correct human rights, claiming to have been unconscous victims of a massive cult deception. They are on a crusade to "limit the powers of the entire Waldorf Movement and Anthroposophy itself by making unsuspecting dolts full partners in declaring they are victims, embracing the cult of victimology and seeking as many victims of magic, racism, pony betting, and worst, Morning verses that uuugha-booghaed the soul of their precious children."

Welcome to Victimology and the new Politically Correct World of marshmellows.

Oh, and:

http://www.nature.com/cgi-taf/DynaPage.taf?file=/embor/journal/v3/n8/full/embor090.html

...................................................................................................................................

From: winters_diana
Date: Tue Apr 27, 2004 7:56 pm
Subject: Re: Peter on Race/Bradford on I AM

Thank you Bradford, I'll have more to say when I'm not too tired to reread it.

Diana

http://www.nature.com/cgi-taf/DynaPage.taf?file=/embor/journal/v3/n8/full/embor090.html

...................................................................................................................................

From: holderlin66
Date: Tue Apr 27, 2004 11:37 pm
Subject: Re: Peter on Race/Bradford on I AM

Etheric and Physical interplays;

Etheric body variables have mixed and distributed themselves over wide global regions, even if we consider that they once arose as bloodline Kingdoms, royal blood to be protected and shared under the rules of the classes and Caste Systems. These apparently originated out of the pool of the etheric worlds and the inner etheric qualities of the planets. The I AM of the modern world of the 21st century, if they are lucky, chooses specific etheric variables that it requires. These delicate shades and variables have become more and more unique and individualized the more I AM's have required and aquired various strengths, weaknesses, and needed specific geographic regions, and language orientations in order to fulfill their karma.

Spiritual Science has often examined the availability of unique physical, etheric, and astral qualities needed by advanced Initiates in order to incarnate. Naturally such concepts jar the whimsical nature of the Politically correct. Individual capacities and general capacities have often brought the Angelic community into the hereditary stream of humanity to help shape the right vehicle for the mission of various advanced souls. John the Baptist and Jesus were profoundly close even in the womb. The Bach family sought a family with musical and highly developed EAr and tonal grasp from a specific elemental region.

Diet, language and geographic region play a part in the early development of childhood. However as humanity and urban style of life has arisen, locality and attachment to various regions have tapered off. However you truly know when you are encountering imbeded regional etheric colorings when you hear the regional twang and flavor, accent and style of a speaker. It was known that you could locate that person by their unique twang and indiviudual voice modulation geographically. You could locate someone on the global map by their accent. This has always been a raw window into etheric perception and flavor of exactly where a human being hailed from.

But these are all part of the living etheric markers, flavors and tangible proof of etheric geography. Tangible encounters with the individual etheric temperament, language and thought substance can be wonderfully explored just by hearing people talk. How much a person is able to emancipate and free up their own regional accent and attachments, try out different foods, associate with all religions, races, languages, the more that person penetrates and learns about the mysteries of their own Life body and the Etheric Earth.

Paracelsus could take unique regional remedies and literally grasp their geographic as well as medicinal etheric connection to the Earth and the health of a human being. Edgar Cayce would wander as a sleeping prophet in his astral body and find cures and remedies for diagnosis by letter. Cacyce would examine the patient in his astral body by hovering and viewing the patient all the while Cayce would be in a mild trance thousands of miles away.

The Christ paradigm of emancipating the etheric forces locked into Races, religions and nationalistic patterns of behavior established in the soul life, requires you to leave father and mother, your father's etheric and your mother and mother's tongue astral dominating forces and feel comfortable among many if not all the different cultures and peoples of the world. Slowly we learn the mysteries of the etheric earth by also learning about our own etheric drawbacks that we take in, when we take in mother and father, sister and brother binding influences. The more you can blend in, the more you become a citizen of the human race instead of any specific race. Family dysfunction must be overcome and penetrated by the I AM and victimology must be overcome.

Inbreeding and racial and relgious retardation fail to unfold transforming and transmuting I AM effects into the etheric body that one has aquired through incarnation. Here we come upon multi-layers of various dysfunctions from child abuse to psychological quirks, tics and habits that have taken over where the I AM was unable to penetrate the etheric model. This etheric model is any model of blood and heredity where we incarnated.

It is one thing to purport to the world in some politically correct manner that you think so and so has racial issues, it is another to look at your own house and understand etheric variables, astral variables and have a good universal sense of the I AM as an incarnating being.

Failing to have aquired these foundations, and I do mean you, you are not even near where Spiritual Science begins to transform the soul. Which is why in many cases Spiritual Science came with a warning label for those who attempted to try to understand these issues without grasping Spiritual Science. Marie Steiner put many warning labels in front of Steiner's esoteric works so that curious intellects would not assume they could crack open a book and read it the same way they read sports illustrated or Country Living. Becoming all at once instant intellectual experts on racial theory.

Now in the roots of various recycled etheric racial and immune issues a whole host of strange distortions arise. It must be noted that the very Iodine content in the thyroid was once compared in Spiritual Science studies with what both Goethe and Napoleon needed for their specific thyroid contents. As the I AM progresses, these modulated chemical balances are less and less the result of accident or fate but rather requirements for the I AM to bring into reality various capacities that will serve the unfolding I AM. Iodine content and small differences in chemical substance have been proven markers, even when it comes to specific medication and medical prescriptions and how each body generally absorbs remedies and at what rate.

All of this goes to prove over and over again and again that not only are there differences in soul and individual etheric qualities but also from the general pool of humanity, various qualities still reveal very subtle and unique differences, colorings, immune sytem strengths and weaknesses, all the way to blood circulation and I Q.

Far from Racial and Etheric forces being the same the subtle differences I had indicated in this whole discussion can be examined in countless ways medically. Current Genetic Theory is merely resetting etheric clock and memory mechanisms in the cell, if that is even possible.

Genetics and the double Helix remarkable coding are all revealed in the Nordic double helix patterns that go to the roots of hell, to the heights of the gods. All based on the double helix. The double helix is a highly esoteric cording and knotting, as Celtic rope work indicates... Here in such Celtic Knotting we would find curious etheric patterns to be studied.

For Example: Indications refering to Gene and Immune system below are all ETHERIC BODY and Astral body FACTORS!!!

"Among the most famous examples are the elevated rates of sickle- cell anemia among African-Americans and of beta-thalassemia, another hemoglobin disorder, among those of Mediterranean heritage.

Both traits evolved to help the ancestors of these groups resist malaria infection, but both prove lethal when inherited in a double dose. As with differences in skin pigmentation, the pressure of the environment to develop a group-wide trait was powerful, and the means to do so simple and straightforward, through the alteration of a single gene.

Another cause of group differences is the so-called founder effect. In such cases, the high prevalence of an unusual condition in a population can be traced to a founding ancestor who happened to carry a novel mutation into the region.

Over many generations of comparative isolation and inbreeding, the community, like it or not, became "enriched" with the founder's disorder. The founder effect explains the high incidence of Huntington's neurodegenerative disease in the Lake Maracaibo region of Venezuela, and of Tay-Sachs disease among Ashkenazi Jews.

"Ethnicity is a broad concept that encompasses both genetics and culture," Dr. Anand said. "Thinking about ethnicity is a way to bring together questions of a person's biology, lifestyle, diet, rather than just focusing on race. Ethnicity is about phenotype and genotype, and, if you define the terms of your study, it allows you to look at differences between groups in a valid way."

In investigating the reasons behind the high incidence of cardiovascular disease among people from the Indian subcontinent, for example, Dr. Anand discovered that Indians had comparatively elevated amounts of clotting factors in their blood."

...................................................................................................................................

From: winters_diana
Date: Sat May 1, 2004 5:52 am
Subject: Re: Peter on Race/Bradford on I AM

Thanks for the link, Bradford. I had already managed to find it (google never lets me down). I thought I remembered reading this in some other context (synchronicity, eh).

You snipped a nice paragraph, after the guy says, "'We're not talking about race as a genetic situation, we're talking about it as a marker" in order to jump quickly to an apparently opposing view: "Others, however, firmly maintain that taking race into account could improve diagnosis and treatment of disease" etc. When I examined what you snipped, I was not surprised to find that it elaborates on how race is essentially a marker. Here's the missing paragraph:

"Joseph Graves Jr, Professor of Evolutionary Biology at the University of Arizona in Phoenix, goes even further, saying that physicians should not use skin colour to diagnose and treat individuals, but only family history. 'What most people would describe as African American, 80% of that individual's genes originate somewhere in Africa. But others with the same appearance might have inherited varying amounts of genes from American Indians, Europeans and Africans,' Graves said. 'African Americans do have unique health needs,' he acknowledges, but he also felt that the complex interaction between socioeconomic and environmental conditions contributed more than genetics. For instance, 90% of Africans in Nigeria have the 235T mutation in the ACE gene locus—a marker for hypertension—but only 10% actually have hypertension. Compare that with 85% of African Americans with the mutation, and over 30% who have the disease, Graves pointed out. Scientists like Saunders may thus be reaching the right answer for the wrong reason, he suggested. Saunders concluded that taking race into account in diagnosing and treating disease could be useful but also dangerous when attributing health aspects to race and genetics 'when we just don't know.'"

The paragraph that followed, to recap, was this:

"Others, however, firmly maintain that taking race into account could improve diagnosis and treatment of disease. Physician and ethicist Sally Satel, in her article 'I am a Racially Profiling Doctor' in The New York Times Magazine, builds a case that taking into account the skin colour of her patients improves her diagnosis and treatment. When prescribing Prozac, for example, she starts an African American patient on a lower dose than a white patient, 'in part because clinical experience and pharmacological research show that many blacks metabolise antidepressants more slowly than Caucasians and Asians. As a result, levels of the medication can build up and make side-effects more likely.' Skin colour itself is not the issue, Satel explains, but 'the evolutionary history indicated by skin colour.'"

So Satel herself is actually using race, or rather, skin color, as a marker. The dissenters are essentially fighting with a straw man. No one (well, few people) really disagree that race can and should be used in medicine. As a marker. That's really what those insisting race be taken into account are saying anyway. The guy says, it's a system we can function in even if we don't believe it (I lost this precise quote). It has its purposes – it's the closest we can get, at the moment, with certain things we don't understand the causes or true origins of. I doubt, somehow, that science is going to end up realizing it was "racial character" they were getting at all along. Things like, sickle cell as an adaptation to malaria, are much more helpful in figuring out the "why" and the "how to treat" for most diseases.

Diana

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From: holderlin66
Date: Sat May 1, 2004 9:57 am
Subject: Re: Diana/Bradford on I AM

winters_diana wrote:

GENETIC MARKERS

Bradford responds;

At least I found that you intelligently understood some of the parameters of how Spiritual Science flows into understanding Race and how Science is catching up to it. I mean that. I admire your efforts in wrestling this through. But lets get into this a little deeper. I shall present a series of connections that really haven't been brought together very clearly. This is probably almost a first.

The whole argument that I enjoyed most was based on "The Founders Model" or "Founders Gene" where Spiritual Science traces our research to an Atlantis that AMA and materialistic Science refuses to say existed. And Ancient Primal Gene specifics were given in Atlantis under the vivid Imagination of various double helix coding.. And I will explain.

Spiritual Science has outlined a number of islands between Ireland and Florida in the Atlantic Ocean or between Azore Spain and Florida and each island had a different planetary mystery center connected with it. Here the gooey Frog sperm was pliably and etherically sung into the coding for each specific race and "Founder Gene". In the great fog of Atlantis we might hear, not croaking, but Mystery Center of the Mothers, singing in ELF tones, Genetic code. But wait, I will reveal why this is so, a real Anthro first. Let me go off here for a second. We should be used to this fly ball to left field approach I have. Interesting questions call forth interesting responses.

Spiritual Science has isolated the tonal structural coming from the planets in specific forms. These forms are called "The Seals of the Planets" they are what is heard in the subsonic or Extreme Low Frequency waves or ElF waves. So that we have, exclusively out of Spiritual Science and nowhere else, metal seals that show the Mars tonal imprint in the etheric; Venus tonal imprint in the etheric; Jupiter tonal imprint in the etheric; Saturn Tonal imprint.

Now these seals, in the early development of humanity, in the watery and foggy Atlantis, were tonal etheric science sung into matter by Planetary Initiates that resided on the Atlantean islands. The Chladni experiments we do in Waldorf School reveal how matter is shaped by tone. Matter and reproduction at that time were still under the maternalistic and close association with plant reproduction and had not yet become the seed bearing paternalistic reality we face now in stiff matter.

The Time frame I am looking at for Atlantis and their Gene Manipulated and GM modifications run into well past 50,000 years. Because we can safely locate a horrific flood from the water erosion of the Sphinx itself which must have stood there for nearly 10,000 years. So that the Flood of Atlantis is roughly placed the way Plato indicated it with Solan.

Diana, while I do not expect you to grasp these issues, at least your good research helped me to uncover such a phrase as "markers". What ever in the vague universe a Marker refers to aside from gambling, is to say that on the human genome a certain set of configurations and coding in the double helix will give skin color and patterns of weakness or perhaps even give racial targets for the incarnating, out from the Spiritual World into Matter, I AM.

When I say, double helix and gentic coding, I am looking at the Nordic Picture Consciousness out of Atlantis that was based on the Double Helix. This Atlantean picture consciousness is exactly what Nefelheim was all about. The Atlanteans were living in the imaginations of the Genetic Coding that would be shaped by Etheric forces. The Etheric forces at the time of Atlantis, as the Maternal aspects of development were stronger, shaped matter out of the Double Helix pattern we are looking at in Yggdrasil.

So don't even expect to understand in one gulp how "Markers" in the coding of genes is some Socially or culturally little gene shift that anybody and their uncle could accomplish. This is Science fantasy and you can dream on.What I just brought is also a kind of fantasy. Spiritual Science Fantasy.

Bradford

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