PLANS cloak-and-dagger
From: Tarjei Straume
Date: Mon Dec 15, 2003 12:01 am
Subject: PLANS cloak-and-dagger
In a recent post - "Thank
you Jakob" - I said that the question of which organization
is most cultlike here and which is most morally bankrupt are
questions for others to answer. In the same post, I provided
a link to a
WC post by Gary about me - written at a time when I was not
monitoring or subscribing to that list.
Upon rereading it, I see that it is so full
of venom and "dirty fighting" that it may be expedient
to comment the details. And in the small world we're living in,
Gary is addressing you here, Mike. (No wonder you got him fired
up with the quote about their creepy tea party and their Peters
with wet gunpowder!)
Re: Thank you Joel, From a
lurker
Gary Bonhiver
Feb 11, 2002 20:12 PST
Thank you Michael!
on 2/11/02 8:22 PM, Michael
Helsher wrote:
[snip]
I also agree with uncle Taz when he says this is a "creepy,
grumpy, misanthropic tea party". I found his website to
be a good counter effort: http://home.no.net/tastraum/index.html
.
[snip]
In my view "The decisive question is not how many Peters
you have," saith Uncle Taz, " but whether or not their
gunpowder is dry." As far as we can see, Staudenmaier and
Zegers are all wet, and so is their gunpowder. Read, and judge
for yourselves". I don't consider myself an anthroposophist
per say, but I obviously have strong sympathies for it, and Waldorf
education as well.
[Gary]
You've selected QUITE the role model for representing your Anthroposophical
and Waldorf sympathies.
[Comment]
Yes, you've got Gary all fired up here, Mike. He's so furious
he's almost out of control, frothing at the mouth as it were.
And then he goes for my jugular in my absence:
[Gary]
Tarjei is well known to us. Do YOU know the same Tarjei that
we know?
Tarjei, the proud father if
a teenage son who posted a graphic bloody, gory web page last
year and boasted about it on waldorf-critics, providing the link
for all the world to see? (he's since taken it down)
[Comment]
My son is a teenager today at 13, but back then, he was only
11, so Gary was mistaken here. And this demonstrates how unscrupulous
and insidious and brutal these PLANS people can be: My son, who
attends Waldorf school in another city on the west coast of Norway
where he lives with his mother, who is also an anthroposophist
as well as a Waldorf teacher, had been staying with me for some
weeks immediately before I subscribed to the WC for the second
time. He spends most of his time playing computer games while
he's here, but i asked him if he wanted to design a webpage instead
for a change. And he did, collecting some strange graphics from
spooky playsites of heads with dripping blood. I was a fool to
allow PLANS to get hold of that page, but I had no premoniton
of how utterly hysterically crazy they could become. They jumped
not only all over me, but all over my 11 year old like rabid
vultures, and they wouldn't leave him alone. He needed professional
help, he was sick sick sick, he would become a serial killer
if noone interfered. His terrible terrible webpage was to be
used as an example of what Waldorf education was doing to children;
it should be a warning to prospective Waldorf parents. This went
on and on and on throughout the summer of 2001. And it's still
there, in the WC archives, because the PLANS people have no moral
scruples what the protection of children is concerned. My son
is growing up fast, 14 in a month, and when he's 18, I may persuade
him to sue PLANS for publishing such garbage about a minor who
is not even participating in the discussion.
[Gary]
Tarjei, the developer of his own current "Skulls" page
which was formerly
named "Death Page"?
[Comment]
I thought Gary was referring to my Dali picture at http://www.uncletaz.com/classgallery/Dali/atmosph.html
but he may be thinking about "Symbol of the Skull"
http://www.uncletaz.com/skullpage.html
that they've linked up to from the PLANS site. The PLANS people
hold the notion that my webpages will prove to outsiders how
wacky and dangerous anthroposophists are. So be it.
[Gary]
Tarjei, the author of the following posts?
-- snip --
What we need is a mole on Dan's Critics Only list. A loyal apop
who has never posted to the WC list and who can impersonate a
Steiner-hater. The mission is to infiltrate the critics' inner
off-list circle and gather intelligence. The agent must take
a loyalty oath to the Goethanum, to Anthroposophia, and to Michael,
and be sworn in to defend AP with occult weapons against all
enemies domestic and foreign. Any volunteers?
-- snip --
-- snip --
In addition, we need more reports like this - lots more. We need
a Tet Offensive against PLANS. And like the Vietnamese did against
the Americans, let's dig tunnels under PLANS, capture their weapons,
and shoot back at them with their own guns. The Germans also
captured their best guns from the Russians.
-- snip --
-- snip --
We have to make pre-emptive strikes in non-English speaking countries
before the Steiner-hating atheists and evangelicals join forces
translate Dan Dugan's stuff to fuel a massive public campaign
to crush WE and AP. We need to get to Dugan before they do. It's
only a question of time when they catch on. The Norwegian Human-
Ethical Foundation (Humanetisk Forbund) has been after Steiner
and WE for decades, warning parents against sending their kids
to Walddorf schools because of the alleged New Age religious
foundation.
-- snip --
[Comment]
Gary has just put his foot in it without realizing it. DD and
his cohorts at PLANS have had the habit of playing CIA and KGB
and what have you by planting moles or sleepers in private, closed
anthro-groups like the Ark. And then they gave themselves away
by publishing stolen text messages on their own public list.
And to top it all off, they denied their espionage when confronted
by the webmasters of such private groups. To Dan Dugan, there
is no such thing as private mail.
With this in mind, I wrote some posts to the
Ark suggesting that we play by some of the same rules. And this
is what Gary apparently thinks is placing Yours Truly in a bad
light, not realizing that he is exposing the PLANS cult in this
way. It looks like we're dealing with stupid thieves and cloak-and-dagger
players here. They say anthroposophists never smile and have
no sense of humor, but the quotes from my Ark posts testify to
the opposite.
Can't you do better than that, morons?
[Gary]
Browse through hundreds of Tarjei's posts to waldorf-critics
before he was finally booted off.
[Comment]
As demonstrated in the
other post - Gary is dead wrong about this.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anthroposophy_tomorrow/message/598
[Gary]
Search results for "Tarjei" on www.waldorfcritics.org...
http://search.atomz.com/search/?sp-q=tarjei&sp-a=sp10017666
[Comment]
A highly recommended search. I think I've come out of discussions
with the PLANS creeps exceptionally well - so well, in fact,
that I began to format and post the threads I participated in
on my own website:
http://www.uncletaz.com/wc/wcthreads/
Here you'll find most of the 1999 discussions
I was in. I haven't found the time to collect, format, and post
the 2001 threads yet.
[Gary]
You should choose your heroes of Anthroposophy a little more
carefully, Michael.
[Comment]
Perhaps Gary should choose his cults a little more carefully.
PLANS stinks, and the members are not very bright, but perhaps
that's why Gary feels at home there. PS is clever, but he is
a pathological liar with the ability to fool people into believing
that he is a historian..The others, especially DD the high priest,
hail him as their guru.
Cheers,
Tarjei
http://uncletaz.com/
...................................................................................................................................
From: Steinerhead
Date: Mon Dec 15, 2003 9:46 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] PLANS cloak-and-dagger
In a message dated 12/15/03 8:02:46 AM, anthrouncle
writes:
In a recent post - "Thank
you Jakob" - I said that the question of which organization
is most cultlike here and which is most morally bankrupt are
questions for others to answer. In the same post, I provided
a link to a
WC post by Gary about me - written at a time when I was not
monitoring or subscribing to that list.
Upon rereading it, I see that it is so
full of venom and "dirty fighting" that it may be expedient
to comment the details. And in the small world we're living in,
Gary is addressing you here, Mike. (No wonder you got him fired
up with the quote about their creepy tea party and their Peters
with wet gunpowder!)
Yes, it is a small world isn't it? I'm not
particularly proud of my participation in those days. That was
almost two years ago. To be honest, I think that was only the
second or third post to an e-mail group that I had ever made
in my entire life. When we started researching Waldorf in the
preceding fall of that year, I had come across the plans site
and was not to surprised, because two of the schools that we
visited actually handed us some literature about it. A few months
later I started reading deeper into it, and began to realize
the propaganda spin and witch-hunt style that seemed to accompany
some of the genuine concern about religious underpinnings, and
actual bad experiences. The more I read, the more angry I became,
till I finally came bursting through their doors with my guns
a blazen. Unfortunately I couldn't notice at that precise moment
that I had forgotten to tighten my belt, and my pants had fallen
down. :(
Re: Thank you Joel, From
a lurker
Gary Bonhiver
Feb 11, 2002 20:12 PST
Thank you Michael!
on 2/11/02 8:22 PM, Michael
Helsher wrote:
[snip]
I also agree with uncle Taz when he says this is a "creepy,
grumpy, misanthropic tea party". I found his website to
be a good counter effort: http://home.no.net/tastraum/index.html
.
[snip]
In my view "The decisive question is not how many Peters
you have," saith Uncle Taz, " but whether or not their
gunpowder is dry." As far as we can see, Staudenmaier and
Zegers are all wet, and so is their gunpowder. Read, and judge
for yourselves". I don't consider myself an anthroposophist
per say, but I obviously have strong sympathies for it, and Waldorf
education as well.
Wow! I must not have been eating well back
then!
[Gary]
You've selected QUITE the role model for representing your Anthroposophical
and Waldorf sympathies.
[Comment]
Yes, you've got Gary all fired up here, Mike. He's so furious
he's almost out of control, frothing at the mouth as it were.
And then he goes for my jugular in my absence:
[Gary]
Tarjei is well known to us. Do YOU know the same Tarjei that
we know?
Tarjei, the proud father
if a teenage son who posted a graphic bloody, gory web page last
year and boasted about it on waldorf-critics, providing the link
for all the world to see? (he's since taken it down)
[Comment]
My son is a teenager today at 13, but back then, he was only
11, so Gary was mistaken here. And this demonstrates how unscrupulous
and insidious and brutal these PLANS people can be: My son, who
attends Waldorf school in another city on the west coast of Norway
where he lives with his mother, who is also an anthroposophist
as well as a Waldorf teacher, had been staying with me for some
weeks immediately before I subscribed to the WC for the second
time. He spends most of his time playing computer games while
he's here, but i asked him if he wanted to design a webpage instead
for a change. And he did, collecting some strange graphics from
spooky playsites of heads with dripping blood. I was a fool to
allow PLANS to get hold of that page, but I had no premoniton
of how utterly hysterically crazy they could become. They jumped
not only all over me, but all over my 11 year old like rabid
vultures, and they wouldn't leave him alone. He needed professional
help, he was sick sick sick, he would become a serial killer
if noone interfered. His terrible terrible webpage was to be
used as an example of what Waldorf education was doing to children;
it should be a warning to prospective Waldorf parents. This went
on and on and on throughout the summer of 2001. And it's still
there, in the WC archives, because the PLANS people have no moral
scruples what the protection of children is concerned. My son
is growing up fast, 14 in a month, and when he's 18, I may persuade
him to sue PLANS for publishing such garbage about a minor who
is not even participating in the discussion.
[Gary]
Tarjei, the developer of his own current "Skulls" page
which was formerly
named "Death Page"?
[Comment]
I thought Gary was referring to my Dali picture at http://www.uncletaz.com/classgallery/Dali/atmosph.html
but he may be thinking about "Symbol of the Skull"
http://www.uncletaz.com/skullpage.html
that they've linked up to from the PLANS site. The PLANS people
hold the notion that my webpages will prove to outsiders how
wacky and dangerous anthroposophists are. So be it.
[Gary]
Tarjei, the author of the following posts?
-- snip --
What we need is a mole on Dan's Critics Only list. A loyal apop
who has never posted to the WC list and who can impersonate a
Steiner-hater. The mission is to infiltrate the critics' inner
off-list circle and gather intelligence. The agent must take
a loyalty oath to the Goethanum, to Anthroposophia, and to Michael,
and be sworn in to defend AP with occult weapons against all
enemies domestic and foreign. Any volunteers?
-- snip --
-- snip --
In addition, we need more reports like this - lots more. We need
a Tet Offensive against PLANS. And like the Vietnamese did against
the Americans, let's dig tunnels under PLANS, capture their weapons,
and shoot back at them with their own guns. The Germans also
captured their best guns from the Russians.
-- snip --
-- snip --
We have to make pre-emptive strikes in non-English speaking countries
before the Steiner-hating atheists and evangelicals join forces
translate Dan Dugan's stuff to fuel a massive public campaign
to crush WE and AP. We need to get to Dugan before they do. It's
only a question of time when they catch on. The Norwegian Human-
Ethical Foundation (Humanetisk Forbund) has been after Steiner
and WE for decades, warning parents against sending their kids
to Walddorf schools because of the alleged New Age religious
foundation.
-- snip --
[Comment]
Gary has just put his foot in it without realizing it. DD and
his cohorts at PLANS have had the habit of playing CIA and KGB
and what have you by planting moles or sleepers in private, closed
anthro-groups like the Ark. And then they gave themselves away
by publishing stolen text messages on their own public list.
And to top it all off, they denied their espionage when confronted
by the webmasters of such private groups. To Dan Dugan, there
is no such thing as private mail.
With this in mind, I wrote some posts to
the Ark suggesting that we play by some of the same rules. And
this is what Gary apparently thinks is placing Yours Truly in
a bad light, not realizing that he is exposing the PLANS cult
in this way. It looks like we're dealing with stupid thieves
and cloak-and-dagger players here. They say anthroposophists
never smile and have no sense of humor, but the quotes from my
Ark posts testify to the opposite.
Can't you do better than that, morons?
That's a classic Tarjei! I didn't know that
those posts were stolen from a private list. You see, my intuition
was right. This kind of stuff goes way beyond the justifiably
bad Waldorf experiences that some people have had.
[Gary]
Browse through hundreds of Tarjei's posts to waldorf-critics
before he was finally booted off.
[Comment]
As demonstrated in the
other post - Gary is dead wrong about this.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anthroposophy_tomorrow/message/598
[Gary]
Search results for "Tarjei" on www.waldorfcritics.org...
http://search.atomz.com/search/?sp-q=tarjei&sp-a=sp10017666
[Comment]
A highly recommended search. I think I've come out of discussions
with the PLANS creeps exceptionally well - so well, in fact,
that I began to format and post the threads I participated in
on my own website:
http://www.uncletaz.com/wc/wcthreads/
Here you'll find most of the 1999 discussions
I was in. I haven't found the time to collect, format, and post
the 2001 threads yet.
[Gary]
You should choose your heroes of Anthroposophy a little more
carefully, Michael.
[Comment]
Perhaps Gary should choose his cults a little more carefully.
PLANS stinks, and the members are not very bright, but perhaps
that's why Gary feels at home there. PS is clever, but he is
a pathological liar with the ability to fool people into believing
that he is a historian..The others, especially DD the high priest,
hail him as their guru.
Woah! your shootin to kill brother. I like
it!
I also like to wallow in my own cleverness
every now and then. Perhaps this is why I have a weird fascination
with the Plans cult. I can't remember the story, but there is
a great Sufi tale called something like "the clever fish."
The story reminds me of Peter S's diatribes. All those intellectual
twists and turns, cat and mouse, aloof Socratic method, and the
classic: "I'm not sure what you mean by that."
But I can only stand to be in that kind of
mental space for a little while. If I stay to long, then my heart
starts to turn black.
Truth and Reminiscence
Mike
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