The Rose
From: golden3000997
Date: Sun Dec 14, 2003 4:34 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Rose
I remember my Foundation Year Studies in Spring
Valley, NY with Rene Querido (1976-77). I remember the group
working so hard through the first half of the book, struggling
with naive realism, etc.. I remember reaching that particular
sentence in the second half of the book. Without the hard, hard
work of the first half, that sentence may seem very trite and
superficial. But after the work, it was such a joy that everyone
totally exulted. There may even have been some dancing around
the room! It wasn't a platitude - it was an experience!
That is an example of why it means so much
to do the work. There is so much joy to be achieved!
Christine
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From: Steinerhead
Date: Sun Dec 14, 2003 4:41 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Rose
In a message dated 12/15/03 12:36:12 AM, golden3000997
writes:
I remember my Foundation Year Studies in
Spring Valley, NY with Rene Querido (1976-77). I remember the
group working so hard through the first half of the book, struggling
with naive realism, etc.. I remember reaching that particular
sentence in the second half of the book. Without the hard, hard
work of the first half, that sentence may seem very trite and
superficial. But after the work, it was such a joy that everyone
totally exulted. There may even have been some dancing around
the room! It wasn't a platitude - it was an experience!
That is an example of why it means so much
to do the work. There is so much joy to be achieved!
Christine
Dear Christine:
Namaste'
...................................................................................................................................
From: Tarjei Straume
Date: Sun Dec 14, 2003 6:59 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Rose
At 01:34 15.12.2003, Christine wrote:
I remember my Foundation Year Studies in
Spring Valley, NY with Rene Querido (1976-77).
Small world. Rene Querido, the fast British-speaking
Dutchman who commands five or six languages, has written a bunch
of anthro-books and intros and translated and was the dean of
Rudolf Steiner College in California for a number of years, right?
Well, I listened to him once in Houston back in 1987 at a gathering
of sorts with him and his wife, plus a local anthro-girl who
played classical violin quite beautifully. He was talking about
the Parceval story, and there was so much to swallow it made
my head spin and I didn't quite get it. But at one point he was
getting at the roots of our present-day problem with the Arabs
in connection with that story, and he asked: "Aren't we
having problems with the Arabs these days?" The affirmation
was spontaneous and unanimous. And this was in 1987, the year
before the Lockerbie blowup. I had a premonition of sorts - which
is very rare for me to have - when travelling on a Pan Am from
Miami to London only a few days before this catastrophe. I'd
never been worried about safety on a flight before. Enough of
that; this was the moment we entered the age of Arab terror:
It began with Lockerbie, which coincided with the death of my
innocent father. An age of innocence of sorts was over and the
age of terror had begun that day in December 1988, heralding
the arrival of Sorat ten years later, in 1998.
But back to Rene Querido in Houston that day
in 1987. It was so silly, this thing his wife came up with. This
was a normal crowd, a mixture of local anthroposophists that
I happened to belong to (I was an AS member back then) plus a
bunch of people who had come to learn something about Steiner
and Waldorf and so on without necessarily having much of a clue.
And then Rene's wife stands up and she passes out these sheets
of paper with some words from Goethe's fairy tale about the green
snake and the lily, and we, people of all ages and from all walks
of life, are supposed to be reading and singing this stuff like
some drama school exercise in articulation and voice or something
- standing up and waving our arms or something. And I don't forget
that we had to roll those r's. Imagine Texans rolling their r's.
Could Bush do it?
I remember the group working so hard through
the first half of the book, struggling with naive realism, etc..
I remember reaching that particular sentence in the second half
of the book. Without the hard, hard work of the first half, that
sentence may seem very trite and superficial. But after the work,
it was such a joy that everyone totally exulted. There may even
have been some dancing around the room! It wasn't a platitude
- it was an experience!
Deja vous again, same place same year. I was
participating in a study group in Houston, and we were going
through the PoF. It was a lot of fun. At one point someone asked
me what I was doing, and I burst out laughing I couldn't get
a word out. Finally it came between hysterical guffaws: "I'm
THINKING!"
I'm glad I went through that book in a group
while at the same time going through related works like "Truth
and Knowledge" (an intro to the PoF) and his earlier work
about Goethe's scientific worldview. Steiner said at one point
that there are two basic approaches to Anthroposophy: One is
through "Theosophy," and the other is through PoF.
I had originally gone the first path. It feels nice to do them
both. And you're right: The second path, working through the
PoF, that's hard work, but it's also very rewarding. It will
make an incurable bona fide anarchist out of you. It's the most
seditious book ever written. What blows me away is not that Steiner
said it would survive all his other works put together. No, what
really knocks me out is that this is what Christ is telling us
today; this is the New Gospel!
Cheers,
Tarjei
http://uncletaz.com/
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From: golden3000997
Date: Sun Dec 14, 2003 8:25 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Rose
The world is indeed, small. By the way, though,
Rene is originally from Belgium. He and his wife Merlyn were
my mentors and teachers in Spring Valley when the school was
called the "Threefold Center for Adult Education."
I went through my Foundation Year during my 21st year and then
he was asked to move to Fair Oaks, CA to take over the teacher
training program. He called me and said "You better sit
down, Merlyn and I are moving to California." Without a
blink, I said "We're coming, too."
meaning myself and my husband. Well, we did - we put some of
our stuff on the moving van with the Querido's furniture and
the rest in a Dodge van that we drove to California in with our
two cats, sleeping on the boxes in the back!
There were seven trainees in Fair Oaks that
year - all women! The teacher training school was called the
"Sacramento Center for Anthroposophical Studies."
The trainees were able, being so few, to intern
in the Sacramento Waldorf School from December through June -
an experience that all trainees are not necessarily able to have.
I was so lucky to have had that time with
them. We lost touch after I moved to Seattle in 1981/82 and I
feel like I have never really fulfilled so much of what they
had hoped for me. But it's not over yet!! : )
As to Houston - my sister and her family moved
to Kingwood a few years back and I have been out there several
times, even thought of moving there, but it hasn't been real
so far.
How destiny weaves - such subtle patterns.
So many times I have fought and kicked against movements that
seemed against what I wanted and yet (the gift of advancing years)
one looks back and sees the pattern and how something other than
one's limited everyday conciousness must be at work to make it
happen at all!
Yeah, when that thinking kicks in - WOW! There
was another speaker in Spring Valley, a college professor at
Ramapo College in NJ who lectured on Etheric Thinking and he
could really take you on a cosmic joy-ride if you allowed your
mind to move - I mean really move!!
I was advised by my other wonderful mentor,
Alan Howard, while I was a very messed up teenager to read a
little of RS every night (no matter what condition I was in)
even if it was a paragraph and I didn't "get" it. Just
keep doing it. Of all of the things I have "ought"
to do in my life, that was the only one I did. It took about
two or three years to be able to read RS. It is like using a
muscle one has never used before. It is not comfortable and doesn't
work well at first. But going little by
little, it gets better. Then, someday one discovers that one
can really think - I mean Etheric Thinking that moves and breathes,
not static abstract thinking! What a trip! : )
So Tarjei, greetings along the way. I wonder
why our paths did not meet. Perhaps there is a crossing point
still to come.
: ) Christine
...................................................................................................................................
From: Joel Wendt
Date: Tue Dec 16, 2003 7:46 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Rose
On Sun, 2003-12-14 at 21:25, golden3000997
wrote:
The world is indeed, small. By the way,
though, Rene is originally from Belgium. He and his wife Merlyn
were my mentors and teachers in Spring Valley when the school
was called the "Threefold Center for Adult Education."
I went through my Foundation Year during my 21st year and then
he was asked to move to Fair Oaks, CA to take over the teacher
training program. He called me and said "You better sit
down, Merlyn and I are moving to California." Without a
blink, I said "We're coming, too."
meaning myself and my husband. Well, we did - we put some of
our stuff on the moving van with the Querido's furniture and
the rest in a Dodge van that we drove to California in with our
two cats, sleeping on the boxes in the back!
Dear Christine,
I am glad you remember those years with fondness.
For others those years where tragic, and an interference with
Destiny, for in order for Rudolf Steiner College to be born out
of the Adult Education side of things, another, more important
and profound impulse, connected with the American Soul, was killed.
Carl Stegmann, who proposed the Adult Education
side, also proposed the creation of a second institution, for
"the study of the social question in America". The
ambitions of a few, to found a teacher training center, basically
"ate" the social question center in the process of
manifesting their self centered vision. Sort of a Cain and Abel
story.
I could say a lot more, but people generally
aren't interested in looking at the Dark Side of the Anthroposophical
Movement, and instead always want to see things as filled with
light and holiness. It is, of course, this failure to penetrate
the shadow elements through group self reflection, that has killed
the Movement and the Society.
sad regards,
joel
...................................................................................................................................
From: Steinerhead
Date: Sun Dec 14, 2003 8:48 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Rose
In a message dated 12/15/03 3:01:00 AM , anthrouncle
writes:
The second path, working through the PoF,
that's hard work, but it's also very rewarding. It will make
an incurable bona fide anarchist out of you. It's the most seditious
book ever written.
I just might drink to that! (even though I
haven't had a drink now for 14 years (filled my quota for this
lifetime;^)).
What blows me away is not that Steiner
said it would survive all his other works
put together. No, what really knocks me out is that this is what
Christ is telling us today; this is the New Gospel!
Last year, while wrestling with the POF, I
realized just that. It happened while I was driving, and I became
so overwhelmed that I had to pull over. I was awed and struck
dumb at the same time. For many years I had pondered the idea
of having "knowledge of God's will, and the power to carry
it out." I was awed by my newfound "knowledge,"
but I was struck dumb by the idea of having "the power to
carry it out." For the first time in my life I felt really_
small_ without hating myself. The amount of responsibility in
what "Christ is telling us today" is huge, and to be
quite honest, it scared me at first. I would think to myself
"how am I going to do this? It's Glorious and HUGE, I don't
feel worthy."
Soon there after came a bunch of bizarre synchronistic
events, and some of the most difficult real life trials I've
ever had to face. Good practice, right on time.
Incidentally, a friend of mine told me once
that the POF is in a way, a reworking of "the Gospel of
Saint John." Anybody know anything about that?
Truth and Love
Mike
...................................................................................................................................
From: golden3000997
Date: Sun Dec 14, 2003 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Rose
Hello Mike,
I don't remember any particular discussion
with the direct assertion that PoF was a re-working of the Gospel
of St. John, but I do remember us talking about the Gospel of
St. John , the Logos and the Knights Templars. Much of which
is already being discussed among us.
This feeling of being small. Well, I am currently
obsessing on the Lord of the Rings, in great anticipation of
the Return of the King. And there is a direct line by Galadriel
(elf queen)
Even the smallest person could change the
course of the future. - Galadriel
That's what makes Tolkien's trilogy and so
many Fairy Tales like The Golden Goose, etc. so wonderful - it
is the least likely, the "Dummling", the youngest brother,
the Aschenputtel, who has the forces necessary to turn the tide,
to save the day. This is the magic that lies in each one of us.
It may lead us to the Mountain of Doom, but if we choose to go,
we have the potential to do more than anyone could have imagined,
especially ourselves.
Everyone here is, I am sure, aware that JRR
Tolkien was part of a circle of professors which included CS
Lewis and Owen Barfield and that Barfield was a direct student
of Anthroposophy. I am not sure if there is any documentation
that RS and Anthroposophy directly influenced Tolkien & Lewis
through Barfield, but there was so much "in the air"
during that time that seemed to have inspired that group.
I hesitated to see the films, actually because
the books have been such a powerful part of my life, but they
have done a very good job. I'm totally in love with Faramir and
I have sneaked a peak at spoilers on line and he's really heavily
featured in Return of the King. Huzzah!!! : )
I believe that each one of us is called upon
to be both a King/ Queen and a Ring Bearer. It is a quest of
conciousness and courage. And how vital is the Fellowship!!!
Perhaps we should be re-examining all of this bickering within
the movement and better prepare our defenses
against the real foe. No one should be taking this time lightly.
We will need each other more than we know. Does anyone know where
the Elves are??
: ) Christine
...................................................................................................................................
From: Joel Wendt
Date: Tue Dec 16, 2003 7:51 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Rose
On Sun, 2003-12-14 at 22:04, golden3000997
wrote:
Everyone here is, I am sure, aware that
JRR Tolkien was part of a circle of professors which included
CS Lewis and Owen Barfield and that Barfield was a direct student
of Anthroposophy. I am not sure if there is any documentation
that RS and Anthroposophy directly influenced Tolkien & Lewis
through Barfield, but there was so much "in the air"
during that time that seemed to have inspired that group.
Dear Christine,
The Circle was called the Inklings, and meet
frequently (sometimes weekly) at Oxford rooms during the 20's
and early 30's. It included, besides the above, Charles Williams,
who wrote some very interesting and quite "British"
occult novels for adults. There is serious scholarship about
these meetings, and one book which I have read is called "The
Inklings".
warm regards,
joel
...................................................................................................................................
From: Steinerhead
Date: Sun Dec 14, 2003 10:09 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Rose
In a message dated 12/15/03 5:05:42 AM , golden3000997
writes:
This feeling of being small. Well, I am
currently obsessing on the Lord of the Rings, in great anticipation
of the Return of the King. And there is a direct line by Galadriel
(elf queen)
Even the smallest person could change the
course of the future. - Galadriel
Hi Christine:
I'm a total Tolkien head also. I just watched
the newly released version of "The Two Towers" last
week. It was awesome; there were 45 extra minuets that really
made it so much better. Especially since last year I had read
the book right before seeing the movie (bad move). I was like
"hey! wait a minuet... that's not right."
Faramir? Naa, not my type -- sorry.
But, oh baby - Liv Tyler ! :^P
I like Gandalf at the bridge of Kazad-dum.
It's a classic "Guardian of the threshold" experience,
especially his "falling into shadow" battling the demon,
and emerging more powerful and purified as "Gandalf the
White."
Thanks Christine for yet another wonderful
post
Truth and Love
Mike
...................................................................................................................................
From: golden3000997
Date: Mon Dec 15, 2003 5:04 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Rose
Hi Mike,
I love Liv Tyler, too, though not necessarily
in the same way. : )
I started reading "Return of the King"
again last week, but now I've stopped and am going back to "The
Fellowship of the Ring". I've gone through them all many
times, but it has been a while and I want to "freshen up".
I don't remember Faramir as being such an
outstanding character in the books and I think that, from what
I have read in interviews online, Peter Jackson has quite conciously
expanded his character. And it is a very interesting and complex
one.
While Aragorn/ Strider is conflicted, it is
actually a rather simple dilemma. To take up his birthright or
not. The only fear he has is that he will fail as his ancestor
did and he would rather not take it on than take the chance of
failing. But what his road and role is was always defined. Faramir
(at least in these films) has many more problems and complexes.
He was not "destined" by birth to take the Stewardship
of Gondor, so he hadn't prepared himself for it. And the world-conflict
that he finds himself in is against his nature. Perhaps he is
the archetype of the Artist - who would like to stay by himself
and work at revealing Truth through Beauty. But in the course
of world events (Middle Earth or Twenty-First Century) no one
can be spared. And the forces of the Artist are needed as much
or even more than the forces of the Warrior - or rather the forces
of the Artist must become the forces of the Warrior!
I found online some articles about this artist's
painting that was banned from an exhibit recently:
http://www.chuckbowden.com
http://www.chuckbowden.com/images/freedom.jpg
I will have to look around to find the article,
but if you search with Chuck Bowden, you will easily find them.
Not what I would call a "great" work of art, but certainly
a courageous one. Consider how artists with an independent point
of view have been banned in all totalitarian societies. In our
totalitarian society, the powers have learned that trying to
ban the art and artists tends to backfire and a much more effective
tactic is to co-opt the artist and the work! Lures of wealth
and fame ensure that those with talent devote their energies
to what is socially acceptable. Those with lesser talent tend
to be discouraged easily from the race! And the social eye is
kept focused on the "successful" ones quite effectively.
Back to "RotK" - Jackson's version
- in Faramir we see the soul of the Artist forced to take on
the task of the Warrior. Love and Duty (and the human conflict
between them) propel him. This is another archetype within us
all. Shall we use whatever talents lie within us in the service
of the Good, or not?
I can't wait!
In Fellowship!
Christine
...................................................................................................................................
From: Steinerhead
Date: Mon Dec 15, 2003 12:17 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Rose
Hi Christine:
I loved your take on Faramir. I was a little
disappointed with his portrayal in the original version of the
second movie. I couldn't remember much of his character from
the book either. But the new extended version of the movie brings
out allot of important details. The most important, I think,
is his relationship with his father and Boramir. The latter being
the prize, with Faramir getting the shit end of the stick, when
it comes to his fathers approval. So here we have a basic theme
from which many Artists aspire to redemption; and as fate would
have it, the opportunity for just such an experience is offered,
but not without much difficulty.
And yeah! The union of the artist and the
worrier. Reminds me of an inspirational book that I read many
years ago: "The way of the peaceful Warrior".
Truth and Love and the Rose
Mike
...................................................................................................................................
From: golden3000997
Date: Tue Dec 16, 2003 4:11 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Rose
Hello Joel,
Well, I know perfectly well about the dark
side of this movement. I have lived through quite a lot of it
- survived, rather! It's too bad about Sacramento. I really don't
see why it couldn't have been a combination of the two impulses
- a truly Americanized teacher training center with a committment
to bring more conciousness to American teachers and American
schools!! I would have loved it. When I was there, I remember
some murmerings, but not a lot said out in the open. My guess
is that it was probably some ego-conflict thing.
Have you ever noticed, or had the experience
of, a great deal of sheer lack of hospitality in the movement,
especially in the school communities? I have had several experiences
where someone has come to visit a school where I was teaching
and (unless they were a recognizable "bigwig" in the
movement) they were totally ignored by the community? On many
occasions, I was the only one who asked who they were, where
they came from and invited them over for dinner!
I was in Chicago around Thanksgiving in 1995.
I had recently met some friends, one with a beautiful daughter
of 9 or 10. The Chicago Waldorf School was having their Advent
Faire (bazaar/ thing) and I was really excited to take my new
friends there, thinking it was potentially a mind and heart connection
for her. The atmosphere was absolutely icy!!! No one, as we moved
through the fair, asked us who we were (you would think people
in a small community could tell when there were new people about).
And when we went into the classrooms to see some of the student's
work, I mentioned that I was a former Waldorf teacher. NO ONE
was at all interested in that fact or who I was or where I had
been. In fact, they looked at me oddly (paranoid, you say?).
Obviously, my friends were not at all impressed. I was really
embarassed for the movement, like I have been on many other occasions.
One more point. I remember some discussion
in the college or school or both about the potential for the
charter school movement. Of course, being young and enthusiastic,
I don't think that my fellow (?) students or I thought it was
a bad plan. We naturally wanted to see the schools grow and thrive.
But I don't think I remember anyone saying, "Now wait a
minute, it might not be such a terrific idea." I think now
that it is a really lousy idea that has enormously bad potential
for the movement with or without PLANS and that it is SO totally
against Steiner's paradigm!!!
I think that we really haven't come to terms
with the spiritual aspect of money!!! We are still acting as
beggars instead of producers!! Big subject, pet peeve.
As I said recently, we need to stop bickering.
I feel like we are a bunch of "cavemen" standing around
arguing about who gets to use the club next and don't notice
the big T-Rex looming over us!!
: I Christine
...................................................................................................................................
From: golden3000997
Date: Tue Dec 16, 2003 9:16 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Rose
OOOOOOHHHH!!!
I'm going tomorrow!!!!!! I bought my ticket
via phone in case it sells out. If I lived up north, I'd go in
Renn garb, but here in the Third World, I don't think it's going
to be that kind of a crowd.
Oh how I wish you were all coming with me!!
Definitely going to bring a whole box of tissues!!!
: ) Christine
...................................................................................................................................
From: Daniel Hindes
Date: Wed Dec 17, 2003 4:22 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Rose
Barfield and Lewis engaged in a years-long
exchange of letters that they playfully called "the great
war" over the nature of consciousness, knowledge and the
divine. Barfield argued the anthroposophical view, even citing
Steiner, while Lewis consistently and very effectively disagreed.
There is an excellent book on the subject called "C. S.
Lewis' 'Great War' With Owen Barfield" by Lionel Adey. You
can get it from amazon.com at http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0954264304/
Daniel Hindes
Everyone here is, I am sure, aware that
JRR Tolkien was part of a circle of professors which included
CS Lewis and Owen Barfield and that Barfield was a direct student
of Anthroposophy. I am not sure if there is any documentation
that RS and Anthroposophy directly influenced Tolkien & Lewis
through Barfield, but there was so much "in the air"
during that time that seemed to have inspired that group.
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