The Contents of the White Rose link

From: golden3000997
Date: Sun Dec 21, 2003 5:06 am
Subject: The contents of the White Rose link

http://www.lewrockwell.com/hardman/hardman26.html

These are the contents of the above, but I recommend seeing for yourself.

Our Debt
by Charley Hardman

"They shall continue what we have begun."

Those were among the last words of Willi Graf before he was killed on 12 October 1943. Mr. Graf was the last member of The White Rose to be struck down, crushed under the accumulated weight of weak men who were not fit to breathe the air exhaled by those immortal few on their way to the guillotine. His murder was preceded by those of Sophie Scholl (22 February 1943), Christoph Probst (22 February 1943), Hans Scholl (22 February 1943), Kurt Huber (13 July 1943), and Alexander Schmorell (13 July 1943) – all of them killed, legally, by government.

If you haven't heard of The White Rose, you might be thinking that it was a paramilitary group engaged in sabotage – blowing up bridges, assassinating, or the like. Nothing quite so physical. The six members of The White Rose mentioned above were slaughtered by the state for writing, printing, and distributing leaflets critical of National Socialism, Hitler, and the cowardly passivity of those who merely watched the evil unleashed in Germany during patriotic years of worshiping the state.

What would you have done if you'd learned of their destruction while attempting to make your way in German society back in 1943? Many people in America these days, whose idea of bravery is to steadfastly tout the duty and right of others to kill strangers, would have done then what they are doing now: Fall in line.

Excuse my language, but it takes no balls to fall in line. It takes no heart to imitate the behavior most likely to bring you comfort given your surroundings. We at LewRockwell.com, Strike The Root, and many other sites critical of government are routinely painted as cowardly trash for saying what we say about war alone. The people doing the criticizing are oblivious. We are not in the immediate danger confronted by The White Rose, but it's not easy or comfortable bucking the current, and it's preposterous to suppose that flowing with the current requires bravery. Is it conducive to short-term self-preservation? You bet it is! Beyond that, there's not much to be said for it when tough questions go unasked and previous historical mistakes are repeated, leading to the ludicrous end where our critics are even louder critics of those they now emulate blindly, furiously.

What bravery is there these days in running around with an American flag? There are no British soldiers waiting to kill you. It doesn't quite have the same risk it used to. Most US flag wavers aren't confronting Israeli bulldozers about to demolish their homes. It's awfully nice to be on the proper side of a bully. For a while.

The White Rose was not about falling in line. It was designed and operated to point the light of truth at pure, disguised evil. It should be alarming to any man claiming to be an American patriot that the evil of Hitler's Germany was not only allowed to proceed, but supported strenuously in the name of patriotism.

From the sixth leaflet published by The White Rose:

"Freedom and honor! For ten long years Hitler and his coadjutor have manhandled, squeezed, twisted, and debased these two splendid German words to the point of nausea, as only dilettantes can, casting the highest values of a nation before swine. They have sufficiently demonstrated in the ten years of destruction of all material and intellectual freedom, of all moral substance among the German people, what they understand by freedom and honor. The frightful bloodbath has opened the eyes of even the stupidest German – it is a slaughter which they arranged in the name of 'freedom and honor of the German nation' throughout Europe, and which they daily start anew. The name of Germany is dishonored for all time if German youth does not finally rise, take revenge, and atone, smash its tormentors, and set up a new Europe of the spirit."

I will let the hate mail flow based upon a comparison I have not made.

The sixth leaflet of The White Rose was its last. They are dead, and have been for over 60 years. Yet they are not entirely dead, because that thing for which they risked their lives and lost is still alive. It is alive in the form of a mirror thrown up against the eyes of every one of us, asking, "Are you worthy to use our words? Are you so worried about your electronic gadgets, your toys, and your palette that you will not contest the state to the point where even those shallow attachments are at risk? Have you allowed our slaughter to mean nothing in your regard? Have your actions further debased the meaning of the concepts 'freedom' and 'honor' we sought to preserve? Did we fight for you?"

A man who witnessed what happened to them answered those questions in a disturbing way. He was Hans Leipelt, and he joined the battle, continuing the work of The White Rose until, on 29 January 1945, he died as they did. He had offended the state.

How did things get to the point in Germany where one could be killed by the state for distributing pamphlets? You tell me.

"You have returned into the light. May the Lord give you eternal rest, and may the eternal light shine upon you."

~ Else Gebel,
November 1946
The White Rose

December 20, 2003

Charley Hardman (send him mail) was born in Washington DC.

Copyright © 2003 LewRockwell.com

Charley Hardman Archives

Back to LewRockwell.com Home Page

[White Rose 2-7]

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From: dottie zold
Date: Sun Dec 21, 2003 7:44 am
Subject: Re: The contents of the White Rose link

Christine:

Our Debt
by Charley Hardman

"They shall continue what we have begun."

Dear Christine,

I found it very interesting in the beginning of this war in Iraq how Germans equated Bush to Hitler. They were the first ones to do so. Then one by one certain members of certain leaders of Europe made very similar comments. And one by one they were forced to resign or they were fired.

I began to wonder how it could be that they would say something so outrageous and so astounding. They did not say these things after Afghanistan they said them on our way in to Iraq. The world was against this war irregardless of what their leaders wanted. The uproar against going into war was absolutely amazing. I felt so ispired to see the people of the world rise up and say no. Seeing 100,000s of people coming together in a manner I have personally never seen before. I wish the same had been done for Yugoslavia when the christian militia of that country attacked the muslims. I remember the Republicans holding up the right to get guns into the muslims to help. Well actually at the time I had no idea that there was still a war going on between Christians and Muslims. And now, even with Paulinas words I can sense this is truly what it is all about. We have a born again Christian in the Whitehouse. But we'd be hardpressed to find anything Christian about him in his view of the world.

I too have also now come to understand that just as our current Govenor of California admired Hitlers ways of getting power and having people nationally proud of themselves to the detriments of others Mr. Bush has been walking the same line as have the rest of his administration. They missed nothing of that book so far other than the gas chambers. But I wonder what Bush would have done, obviously I do not think he would have ever done the horrid things Hitler did, but I do think he would have and still will if given a chance get rid of all the muslim loving people through taking away their freedoms to live comfortably in the US. And distgustingly enough he also does it in his own country with his squeezing of social reforms and all monetary build up for war. He knew when he cut those taxes for the rich that one day soon the war would kick in and then all the war material productions would kick in just like they usually do. So, the highest production comes from the need to promote the continuing saga of the war. How easy it is to see why the friendship of Israel and US has walked side by side for so many years.

Did you realize we had so much money? I mean really. And we can not afford health care nor better art in schools, veterans care to mention a few. Just flabergasting that he has not been impeached with the lies he told to the nation and the world. And this is why the Democrats need to get Michael like. And only Dean has shown any kind of shimmer of this courage. Even before it was popular to do so.

Love,
Dottie

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From: Tarjei Straume
Date: Sun Dec 21, 2003 8:03 am
Subject: about Bush and Hitler

At 16:44 21.12.2003, Dottie wrote:

I found it very interesting in the beginning of this war in Iraq how Germans equated Bush to Hitler. They were the first ones to do so. Then one by one certain members of certain leaders of Europe made very similar comments. And one by one they were forced to resign or they were fired.

The comparison between Hitler and Bush is unintelligent, thoughtless, and an insult to the Holocaust victims. The Dalai Llama speaks kindly of Bush; he actually likes the man. And he has met him face to face.

So although I do stand by everything I've said about Bush Sr and Bush Jr and the death penalty and their oil deals and private wars and so on and so on, I would draw the line at a certain point. Those who compare Bush to Hitler are way out of line, and as public servants and diplomats they should be fired for stupidity.

Tarjei
http://uncletaz.com/

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From: dottie zold
Date: Sun Dec 21, 2003 9:59 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] about Bush and Hitler

Tarjei wrote:
The comparison between Hitler and Bush is unintelligent, thoughtless, and an insult to the Holocaust victims. The Dalai Llama speaks kindly of Bush; he actually likes the man. And he has met him face to face.

Hi Tarjei,

In one sense you are correct if we are thinking that Bush has the capacity or the want to anhilate a group of people in the manner that Hitler did. Obviously I do not sense this about him. And its not even realy one person rather an administration of like minded people we are speaking of. I think we would have to look to Mr. Rove to really pinpoint why this comparison even comes up.

In regards to Hitler we are not referring to the killings rather his manner of taking hold of his countries political power. There is a similar strategy that all message goes through him and his same minded administration to such an extent that the rest of us are considered traitors to the country we live in. Our freedoms have been taken away to be looked upon by the crazy minded officials who believe anyone with sympathy for Iraq or Muslims is a possible danger to our society. I am stopped every time I fly because I wear a bandanna. Who told me this? A security agent asked if I knew why when I had mentioned this is the third time I had been stopped on the way to the luggage area. He told me 'nobody else will tell you but I will, it's your bandanna'. They had me in tears at one point as I was saying bye to my father and they were questioning me a little rudely. I was tryiing to wave to him as if all was well. Had he gotten any inkling what was going on he would have been over there in a second. So, I had to act like all was okay. Now when I go the airports I expect it and it does contiue to happen. And I just laugh although it does hurt my feelings a bit. I think actually I have something marked on my liscense possibly. I would hate to be in the room alone with those people who can change ones life in an instant.

Today on page 22 in between a Santa and piano add we find that once again they were forced to drop espionage charges against another syrian born soldier serving Guatanamo. He is the second AMerican soldier to have these devestating charges dropped against him. I have watched the people who served as interpreters for the inmates be charged as they left duty. I first thought oh jeez I can't believe we have spying going on. And then I started to notice a pattern; all muslim speaking interpretors were watched and accused upon leaving the base. And I thought 'Damn you Rumsfield', better be safe than sorry mentality no matter who it harms. And what has become of these espionage charges? Well, we have an adultry charge against Mr. Yee, and a false credit report charge among other more lame charges. All serious charges dropped without explanation. Thank god the world is watching.

I am sure I too would like Mr. Bush when sitting in front of him as a person. I just can't stand where he has taken us and the manner in which he has. We are called to find the god in others and that is what I do. However it does not mean the other things are not true about him. And it does not mean that I am not aware of what he is capable of in all ways. Have you ever heard the Dali Lama speak ill of anyone? I can't even imagine that happening. He is much more seeing and trusting than the rest of us. And we aspire to be so.

Tarjei
So although I do stand by everything I've said about Bush Sr and Bush Jr and the death penalty and their oil deals and private wars and so on and so on, I would draw the line at a certain point. Those who compare Bush to Hitler are way out of line, and as public servants and diplomats they should be fired for stupidity.

Dottie

Well, I for one am glad they so spoke. It gave me a chance to put a grounding to what I was feeling within. And I sure they did not speak of this lightly either. Why would one dare to think of such a connection? How did that come about? We would have to look to Mr. Rove to really find this answer.

It is unbearable for Christ like minded people who work to bring peace to see the setback that has ocurred with this administration. Just devestating to live in this country for me and watch the cover up that is going on. We couldn't get an honest word in the LA Times until one day something happened. And I can not remember exactly what it was but it was the first time that began a somewhat more balanced view of the Bush Administration. And I do see a driving link for other like minded people across the world who sympathize with each other and their desire for a peaceful world. And that is a force that will have to be reckoned with in the future. I just do not know what I will do if this man is reelected. I truly don't. I remember watching the debates thinking 'oh no he has the bubbba mentality that wishy washy people are going to fall right in line with. But I also thought 'no way, they must be able to see past this man'. I was wrong and I still cannot believe he won. Well, actually he did not. I remember when Clinton won by a slim margin and the Republicans held he could not make so many changes because he had not won by a majority. Funny how times change and every stupid thing they have ever said and ruled has come back to haunt them from ruling as if a major majority to challenging judgeships. I just hope I can hold a Michaelic courage to not want to just run and hide from what I do not want to see in my fellow man. How my elders fought the battles they did with the losses they incurred without losing faith of ones people seems to be outside my grasp at the moment.

Sincerely,
Dottie

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From: Tarjei Straume
Date: Sun Dec 21, 2003 10:06 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] about Bush and Hitler

At 18:59 21.12.2003, Dottie wrote:

In regards to Hitler we are not referring to the killings rather his manner of taking hold of his countries political power.

In that case, comparing Bush to Napoleon would have been more acceptable. There is absolutely no excuse for comparing him to Hitler.

Tarjei
http://uncletaz.com/

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From: Daniel Hindes
Date: Sun Dec 21, 2003 11:19 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] about Bush and Hitler

In regards to Hitler we are not referring to the killings rather his manner of taking hold of his countries political power.

In this case, it is mistaken to refer to Hitler. A careful study of the period would show that Hitler had much help in getting to power. Thus it is far better to say: "...the Nazi's manner of taking hold of [a] countries political power." Hitler was just one of a number of people working in that manner. Goebbles, for example, was arguably better at touching those nerves. I maintain that separating Hitler the person from "Nazism" the movement is important.

Daniel

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From: dottie zold
Date: Sun Dec 21, 2003 11:25 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] about Bush and Hitler

Daniel
Thus it is far better to say: "...the Nazi's manner of taking hold of [a] countries political power." Hitler was just one of a number of people working in that manner. Goebbles, for example, was arguably better at touching those nerves. I maintain that separating Hitler the person from "Nazism" the movement is important.

Hi Daniel,

I can agree with you one hundred percent. It is much clearer in the manner you have just mentioned. When one compares the Bush regime to the Hitler regime people tend to think we are talking about the murdering of the Jews and so forth. We are not. I think what you have said is how I will talk about the situation from now on. It just makes more sense.

Thank you,
Dottie

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From: golden3000997
Date: Sun Dec 21, 2003 11:43 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] about Bush and Hitler

George W. Bush's grandfather is called "Hitler's Angel". He was Hitlers financier in New York. - Christine

*********************************
Prescott Bush and the Nazis
by MICHAEL KRANISH

(Excerpt from PRESCOTT BUSH & NAZIS, BOSTON GLOBE 4/23/2001, TRIUMPHS,
TROUBLES SHAPE GENERATIONS

PRESCOTT BUSH PAVED MODERATE PATH FOR SON AND GRANDSON;
WOUNDED BY FRIEND'S BETRAYAL, HE PUT HIGH PRICE ON LOYALTY)

Author: By Michael Kranish, Globe Staff Date: 04/23/2001 Page: A1 Section:
National/Foreign

AN AMERICAN DYNASTY
Last of two parts

"Prescott Bush was surely aghast at a sensational article the New York
Herald Tribune splashed on its front page in July 1942.

'Hitler's Angel Has 3 Million in US Bank,' read the headline above a story
reporting that Adolf Hitler's financier had stowed the fortune in Union Banking
Corp., possibly to be held for "Nazi bigwigs."

Bush knew all about the New York bank: He was one of its seven directors. If
the Nazi tie became known, it would be a potential embarrassment, Bush and his
partners at Brown Brothers Harriman worried, explaining to government
regulators that their position was merely an unpaid courtesy for a client.

The situation grew more serious when the government seized Union's assets
under the Trading with the Enemy Act, the sort of action that could have ruined
Bush's political dreams.

As it turned out, his involvement wasn't pursued by the press or political
opponents during his Senate campaigns a decade later. But the episode may well
have been one of the catalysts for a dramatic change in his life.

Just as the Union Banking story broke, Bush volunteered to be chairman of
United Service Organizations, putting himself on the national stage for the
first
time.

He traveled the country raising millions of dollars to help boost the morale
of US troops during World War II, enhancing his stature in a way that helped
him get elected US senator.

A son and grandson would become presidents."

*****************

http://www.hereinreality.com/familyvalues.html

*****************

http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/bushies.htm

Intro to full article:

The Nazis extracted the fillings of its victims after being informed by
Degussa that the company could refine it into marketable gold bullion. Degussa
was
awarded an exclusive contract with the Nazis to refine all gold. The company
was also joint owners with I.G. Farben of Degesch, a firm that produced
Zyklon-B cyanide tablets used in the gas chambers. Due to the hoard of gold
fillings
stacking up at Auschweitz, Degussa built a smelter there. The bullion was then
shipped back to Berlin and commingled with the Nazis gold stash. Undoubtedly
some of it made its way back to the banker in charge of United Steel Works,
Prescott Bush.

Gold Fillings, Auschwitz

& George Bush

*********************

http://www.clamormagazine.org/features/issue14.3_feature.html

***********************

http://www.bushbodycount.com/voices/thelist.php

A Roster of the Dead
This is a list of bodies, a roster of the dead, who might have been called Witnesses had they not met their untimely ends. Some of the names on this list will give you pause. Some are rumor. Some you may find incredible, and some frightening. Do your own research. You will draw your own conclusions. We make no assertion but this:
There is not enough time to compile a list of the thousands who have died and who will die under CIA-backed government actions, or in wars started by a lust for oil or power, and fed by the bodies of young men who believe the media propaganda.
George W. Bush is the face of the ruling elite who couldn't care less about the masses, especially if the masses get in the way of their greed. The evil that was present in Nazi Germany is present in his heritage, and now present in America. God help us all.
Go to the list

*********************************

http://www.truthout.org/docs_02/012303A.ma.dead.htm

"What luck for the rulers that men do not think."
--Adolf Hitler

***********************************

http://www.lpdallas.org/features/draheim/dr991216.htm

**************************
George W. Bush was part of the team that masterminded the demolition of the two towers of the World Trade Center, slaughtering over 3,000 of his own citizens on his own soil. More will follow. - Christine

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/inside.html

9/11 - An Inside Job?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
An Inside Job?

US officials are compiling what one called "growing" evidence that other hijackings may have been planned for September 11. Officials from both the government and the airline industry tell TIME Magazine that a knife-like weapon was found on each of two separate Delta Airlines aircraft later that day, although neither plane took off due to the nationwide grounding after the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks on hijacked United and American airlines planes.

Investigators are not yet certain how these weapons came to be on board the aircraft. But they increasingly believe that the weapons may have been prepositioned by accomplices for use by others. As one US official told TIME, "These look like inside jobs."

Numbers suggest terrorists targeted flights

The numbers appear out-of-whack, thankfully. And so, a lingering question is why the passenger loads on the four planes hijacked in U.S. skies are being described by industry officials as "very, very low."

"You have to think it was by design, that they didn't want to go on a flight with the chance of the passengers working against them,'' said Dave Esser, head of the aeronautical science department at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University. "If you've got the threat of a bomb or a gun you can hold people at bay. These guys were strong-arming people with box cutters and knives.

"They wanted the numbers to be on their side.''

And they were, staggeringly so.

Three of the transcontinental flights departed for the West Coast with at least two-thirds of the seats empty. Only 37 of the 182 seats were occupied -- including four by hijackers, at least two in first class -- as United Airlines' Flight 93 left Newark for San Francisco.

The only flight that was even half full proved to be American Airlines' Flight 11, a wide-body Boeing 767 that left Boston bound for Los Angeles with 81 passengers.

Bush-Linked Company Handled Security for the WTC, Dulles and United

George W. Bush's brother was on the board of directors of a company providing electronic security for the World Trade Center, Dulles International Airport and United Airlines, according to public records.

All 9/11 airports serviced by one Israeli company

ICTS is [...] an Israeli owned company, and [...] it sells services to every airport from which the hijacked planes operated, including security, sometimes through wholly owned subsidiaries like Huntleigh USA Corporation.

It has been suggested that the incredible feat of hijacking four aircraft without a single arrest at the gate would require the resources of a nation-state. This is even more true with the revelation that at least one gun had managed to be aboard a hijacked plane. One company had automatic inside access to all of the airports from which hijacked planes departed on 9-11, and to the airports used by Richard Reid, the shoe bomber. An Israeli company. One that Mossad agents could easily find employment with without the management knowing who they were or what their purpose really was.

But one thing is clear. By virtue of the Odigo warning, someone knew enough about the planned attacks to warn Odigo before the planes had even departed the airport gates, yet they did not call the Israeli security company at the airports which could have stopped the flights from leaving.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

See also:

9/11 - Pure Coincidences?
The 9/11 USAF Stand Down
9/11 Inside Trades Lead to CIA
FEMA in New York the Night Before 9/11?
The World Trade Center Demolition - An Analysis
The Pre-9/11 Shut Down of Arab Muslim Web Sites
9/11 - What did the government know, and when did it know it?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What Really Happened

************************

http://www.viewfromthewall.com/

*********************

http://www.babelmagazine.com/NWO%20EXPOSED.html

THE NEW WORLD ORDER EXPOSED
by Victor Thorn

Some of the explosive material contained within this book:

Who commanded our Air Force to ‘stand down’ for nearly two hours on the morning of 9-11?

The Federal Reserve is a privately-owned, for-profit corporation with seven of the top ten shareholders being foreign banks

The Bush family was the Nazi party’s primary money launderer during World War II

The CIA is one of the largest drug traffickers in the world

Undeniable proof that AIDS is a man-made disease

The Bush and bin-Laden families have been in business together for over 30 years and, until recently, both belonged to the Carlyle investment group

The Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City was actually brought down by explosive charges inside the building

The primary financiers for both the Bolshevik Revolution and Hitler’s rise to power were American bankers

Learn how ‘Votescam’ is being used to steal your vote

Franklin Roosevelt had full knowledge of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor nearly two weeks before it actually took place

The OSS and CIA have been working hand-in-hand with organized crime since the 1930’s/li>

90% of the people at Jonestown were either killed by gunshot, strangulation, or lethal injection – not suicide

Franklin Roosevelt had given all of our nuclear secrets to Russia by 1943 – nearly two years before we dropped the Bomb in Hiroshima

The U.S. Government smuggled scores of Nazi scientists into this country after WWII under ‘Project Paperclip’

****************************
http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/

****************************
FEMA has the power and the concentration camps at the ready to put a tremendous percentage of United States citizens into a limbo situation or worse, and by Executive Order, Congress will not be allowed to even investigate such an action for 6 months. - Christine

http://www.sonic.net/sentinel/gvcon6.html

FEMA - The Secret Government

By Harry V. Martin with research assistance from David Caul

Copyright FreeAmerica and Harry V. Martin, 1995

Some people have referred to it as the "secret government" of the United States. It is not an elected body, it does not involve itself in public disclosures, and it even has a quasi-secret budget in the billions of dollars. This government organization has more power than the President of the United States or the Congress, it has the power to suspend laws, move entire populations, arrest and detain citizens without a warrant and hold them without trial, it can seize property, food supplies, transportation systems, and can suspend the Constitution.

Not only is it the most powerful entity in the United States, but it was not even created under Constitutional law by the Congress. It was a product of a Presidential Executive Order. No, it is not the U.S. military nor the Central Intelligence Agency, they are subject to Congress. The organization is called FEMA, which stands for the Federal Emergency Management Agency. Originally conceived in the Richard Nixon Administration, it was refined by President Jimmy Carter and given teeth in the Ronald Reagan and George Bush Administrations.

FEMA had one original concept when it was created, to assure the survivability of the United States government in the event of a nuclear attack on this nation. It was also provided with the task of being a federal coordinating body during times of domestic disasters, such as earthquakes, floods and hurricanes. Its awesome powers grow under the tutelage of people like Lt. Col. Oliver North and General Richard Secord, the architects on the Iran-Contra scandal and the looting of America's savings and loan institutions. FEMA has even been given control of the State Defense Forces, a rag-tag, often considered neo-Nazi, civilian army that will substitute for the National Guard, if the Guard is called to duty overseas.

THE MOST POWERFUL ORGANIZATION IN THE UNITED STATES

Though it may be the most powerful organization in the United States, few people know it even exists. But it has crept into our private lives. Even mortgage papers contain FEMA's name in small print if the property in question is near a flood plain. FEMA was deeply involved in the Los Angeles riots and the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake in the San Francisco Bay Area. Some of the black helicopter traffic reported throughout the United States, but mainly in the West, California, Washington, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas and Colorado, are flown by FEMA personnel. FEMA has been given responsibility for many new disasters including urban forest fires, home heating emergencies, refugee situations, urban riots, and emergency planning for nuclear and toxic incidents. In the West, it works in conjunction with the Sixth Army.

FEMA was created in a series of Executive Orders. A Presidential Executive Order, whether Constitutional or not, becomes law simply by its publication in the Federal Registry. Congress is by-passed. Executive Order Number 12148 created the Federal Emergency Management Agency that is to interface with the Department of Defense for civil defense planning and funding. An "emergency czar" was appointed. FEMA has only spent about 6 percent of its budget on national emergencies, the bulk of their funding has been used for the construction of secret underground facilities to assure continuity of government in case of a major emergency, foreign or domestic. Executive Order Number 12656 appointed the

National Security Council as the principal body that should consider emergency powers. This allows the government to increase domestic intelligence and surveillance of U.S. citizens and would restrict the freedom of movement within the United States and grant the government the right to isolate large groups of civilians. The National Guard could be federalized to seal all borders and take control of U.S. air space and all ports of entry.

Here are just a few Executive Orders associated with FEMA that would suspend the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. These Executive Orders have been on record for nearly 30 years and could be enacted by the stroke of a Presidential pen:

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10990 allows the government to take over all modes of transportation and control of highways and seaports.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10995 allows the government to seize and control the communication media.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10997 allows the government to take over all electrical power, gas, petroleum, fuels and minerals.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10998 allows the government to take over all food resources and farms.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11000 allows the government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11001 allows the government to take over all health, education and welfare functions.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11002 designates the Postmaster General to operate a national registration of all persons.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11003 allows the government to take over all airports and aircraft, including commercial aircraft.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11004 allows the Housing and Finance Authority to relocate communities, build new housing with public funds, designate areas to be abandoned, and establish new locations for populations.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11005 allows the government to take over railroads, inland waterways and public storage facilities.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11051 specifies the responsibility of the Office of Emergency Planning and gives authorization to put all Executive Orders into effect in times of increased international tensions and economic or financial crisis.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11310 grants authority to the Department of Justice to enforce the plans set out in Executive Orders, to institute industrial support, to establish judicial and legislative liaison, to control all aliens, to operate penal and correctional institutions, and to advise and assist the President.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11049 assigns emergency preparedness function to federal departments and agencies, consolidating 21 operative Executive Orders issued over a fifteen year period.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11921 allows the Federal Emergency Preparedness Agency to develop plans to establish control over the mechanisms of production and distribution, of energy sources, wages, salaries, credit and the flow of money in U.S. financial institution in any undefined national emergency. It also provides that when a state of emergency is declared by the President, Congress cannot review the action for six months.

The Federal Emergency Management Agency has broad powers in every aspect of the nation. General Frank Salzedo, chief of FEMA's Civil Security Division stated in a 1983 conference that he saw FEMA's role as a "new frontier in the protection of individual and governmental leaders from assassination, and of civil and military installations from sabotage and/or attack, as well as prevention of dissident groups from gaining access to U.S. opinion, or a global audience in times of crisis."

FEMA's powers were consolidated by President Carter to incorporate:

the National Security Act of 1947, which allows for the strategic relocation of industries, services, government and other essential economic activities, and to rationalize the requirements for manpower, resources and production facilities;

the 1950 Defense Production Act, which gives the President sweeping powers over all aspects of the economy;

the Act of August 29, 1916, which authorizes the Secretary of the Army, in time of war, to take possession of any transportation system for transporting troops, material, or any other purpose related to the emergency; and

the International Emergency Economic Powers Act, which enables the President to seize the property of a foreign country or national.

. . more

****************************

http://www.guerrillanews.com/war_on_terrorism/doc1611.html

**********************

http://www.survivalistskills.com/fema.htm

************************

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/camps.html

U.S. CONCENTRATION CAMPS
FEMA AND THE REX 84 PROGRAM

There over 600 prison camps in the United States, all fully operational and ready to receive prisoners. They are all staffed and even surrounded by full-time guards, but they are all empty. These camps are to be operated by FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Agency) should Martial Law need to be implemented in the United States.

The Rex 84 Program was established on the reasoning that if a mass exodus of illegal aliens crossed the Mexican/US border, they would be quickly rounded up and detained in detention centers by FEMA. Rex 84 allowed many military bases to be closed down and to be turned into prisons.

(More)

When first coming across this information I was in a state of total denial. How could this be? I believed our country was free, and always felt a sense of comfort in knowing that as long as we didn’t hurt others in observing our freedom we were left to ourselves. Ideally we treated everyone with respect and honored their uniqueness and hoped that others did likewise.

It took an intensive year of searching into the hidden politics to discover that we are as free as we believe we are. If we are in denial, we don’t see the signs that are staring at us, but keep our minds turned off and busy with all the mundane affairs of daily life.

We just don’t care enough to find out the real truth, and settle for the hand-fed stories that come our way over the major media sources television, radio, newspaper, and magazines. But it’s too late to turn back to the days of blindfolds and hiding our heads in the sand because the reality is becoming very clear. The time is fast approaching when we will be the ones asking "What happened to our freedom? To our free speech? To our right to protect ourselves and our family? To think as an individual? To express ourselves in whatever way we wish?"

Once we challenge that freedom we find out how free we really are. How many are willing to take up that challenge? Very few indeed, otherwise we wouldn’t find ourselves in the situation that we are in at the present time. We wouldn’t have let things progress and get out of the hands of the public and into the hands of those that seek to keep us under their control no matter what it takes, and that includes the use of force and detainment for those that ask the wrong questions.

Will asking questions be outlawed next? Several instances have recently been reported where those that were asking questions that came too near the untold truth (the cover up) were removed from the press conferences and from the public’s ear. Also, those that wanted to speak to the press were detained and either imprisoned, locked in a psychiatric hospital, slaughtered (through make-believe suicides) or discredited.

Why are we all in denial over these possibilities? Didn’t we hear about prison camps in Germany, and even in the United States during World War II? Japanese individuals were rounded up and placed in determent camps during the duration of the War. Where was their freedom?

You don’t think it could happen to you? Obviously those rounded up and killed didn’t think it could happen to them either. How could decent people have witnessed such atrocities and still said nothing? Are we going to do the same here as they cart off one by one those individuals who are taking a stand for the rights of the citizens as they expose the truth happening behind the scenes? Are we all going to sit there and wonder what happened to this country of ours? Where did we go wrong? How could we let it happen?

**********************

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/fematape.html

FEMA IN NEW YORK THE NIGHT BEFORE 9/11?

Click HERE for a RealAudio recording of a statement made by FEMA spokesman Tom Kenney to Dan Rather on Wednesday, September 12th. In this interview, Tom states that Fema was deployed to New York on Monday night, September 10th, to be ready to go into action on Tuesday morning, September 11th.

Needless to say, this recording has caused quite a stir. The official reaction is that Kenney was simply confused about the dates. However, Kenney is complaining on the recording about not gettng full access to the site until "today". Kenney talks about a Monday, a Tuesday, and "today". That's three days. If indeed the above recording was made on Wednesday, September 12th as claimed, then the explanation that Kenney was simply confused about the days doesn't work, because there is one more day than can be accounted for.

Mr. Kenney has since been ordered not to discuss this incident

***********************

The Dali Lama has his own economic/ political agenda and he "likes" a lot of people if it is to the benefit of his cause of Tibetan liberation. - Christine

Le Dalai-Lama soutient G.W. Bush
Apres son entretien avec le president Bush junior, lors d`une tournee de 20 jours aux Etats-Unis, le pape du Bouddhisme tibetain, presume non-violent, declare : `Iraq war may be justified`. http://www.india.indymedia/org/front.php3article_id=78338group=webcast. Le Dalai-Lama, representant de la communaute tibetaine en exil, que d`aucuns pensent etre un agent d`influence `spirituel` a cause de son Prix Nobel, considere l`expedition coloniale americaine en Irak comme une necessite historique au meme titre que la Seconde guerre mondiale et la Guerre de Coree... Cette prise de position donne raison aux journalistes tel l`americain Michael Parenti (lire son article sur www.swans.com intitule `Amical Feodalism : The myth of Tibet) qui denonce les feodaux en exil tibetain comme des agents payes de l`imperialisme americain.

ThecLama supports G.W. Bush
After its discussion with the president Bush junior, at the time d`une tournee 20 days in the United States, the pope of Buddhism tibetain, presume non-violent, declares : ` Iraq war may Be justified`. http://www.india.indymedia/org/front.php3article_id=78338group=webcast. ThecLama, representant of the community tibetaine in exile, that d`aucuns thinks of being an agent d`influence ` spirituel` because of its Nobel Prize, considere colonial l`expedition americaine in Iraq like a historical necessite on the same basis that the Second world war and the War of Coree... This standpoint gives reason to the journalists such l`americain Michael Parenti (to read its article on www.swans.com entitles ` Amical Feodalism : The myth of Tibet) which denonce the feodaux ones in exile tibetain like agents pays of l`imperialism americain.

Dali Lama says Iraq War May Be Justified
by Scott Lindlaw • Wednesday September 10, 2003 at 05:11 PM

The exiled Tibetan leader and Nobel Peace Prize winner said some wars, including the Korean War and World War II, helped "protect the rest of civilization, democracy."

dalailama.jpg, JPG image, 195x256

Dali Lama: Iraq War May Be Justified
Scott Lindlaw, AP, September 10, 2003 11:09 PM

The Dalai Lama said Wednesday that the U.S.-led war in Afghanistan may have been justified to win a larger peace, but that is it too soon to judge whether the Iraq war was warranted. "I think history will tell," he said in an interview with The Associated Press on Wednesday, just after he met with President Bush.

"In principle, I always believe nonviolence is the right thing, and nonviolent method is in the long run more effective," said the Dalai Lama, who after the Sept. 11 attacks had implored Bush to avoid a violent response by the United States.

The exile Tibetan leader, awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1989, said the Vietnam War increased suffering and was a "failure." But, he said, some wars, including the Korean War and World War II, helped "protect the rest of civilization, democracy." He said he saw a similar result in Afghanistan - "perhaps some kind of liberation."

"The people themselves, I think, suffer a lot under their previous regimes," he said. But he was adamant that the United States not lose sight of rebuilding Afghanistan.

The Dalai Lama urged Bush, in a letter on Sept. 12, 2001, to "think seriously whether a violent action is the right thing to do and in the greater interest of the nation and people in the long run." Asked whether the Iraq war was just, the Dalai Lama said the situation there is "more complicated" and will take more time before he can judge.

The Dalai Lama said he had briefly raised these concerns to Bush during their meeting in the White House residence. He declined to say what Bush's response was.

The Tibetan Buddhist leader, who is a five-city, 20-day tour of the United States that is timed to coincide with the Sept. 11 anniversary, called on Americans to channel their lingering grief "into a source of inner strength."

"Big, unthinkable tragedies happen," he said. "Now, instead of keeping that and developing hatred or sense of revenge, instead of that, think long-term. The negative event, try to transform into a source of inner strength."

He likened the terrorist attacks to Tibetans' struggle to reclaim their country from Chinese rule. Communist troops took over Tibet in 1951, and the Dalai Lama fled in 1959 during a failed uprising. He now lives in India.

"In my own case, many experiences of unthinkable situations have happened, but we never lose our hope. We never let negative emotions (rule), so that's immense benefit - including my own health," said the Dalai Lama, who was hospitalized last year with stomach ailments. "More peace (of) mind, more calm mind, more compassionate mind - very good for my health!" he said with a hearty laugh.

The White House meeting irritated Chinese authorities, who said in the official China Daily newspaper that the visit to the United States "constitutes a serious intervention into China's internal affairs." Nevertheless, the Dalai Lama got an audience with Bush; Secretary of State Colin Powell and his top aide on Tibet, Paula Dobriansky; Laura Bush; White House chief of staff Andy Card; and a deputy to Vice President Dick Cheney, Scooter Libby.

The Washington-based International Campaign for Tibet, however, said it was high time Bush received the Dalai Lama in the Oval Office, not in the White House residence - a symbolic step that would signal a stronger commitment to the Dalai Lama's teachings, said John Ackerly, ICT's president.

"Our war on terrorism should include embracing nonviolent leaders, and not ushering them in through the back door of the White House," Ackerly said.

The Dalai Lama, regarded by Tibetan Buddhists as the 14th incarnation of the Buddha of compassion, broke into laughter often during the interview, even when the conversation turned to serious topics.

He laughed when he described his political role as one of "semi-retirement," when he stumbled on a word, and again when he characterized Beijing's occasional "bullying" of Tibet.

He gestured continuously, the beads on his bracelet rattling at the end of his bare arms. The 68-year-old Dalai Lama had flecks of gray in his close-cropped hair, but looked decades younger than his age.

The Dalai Lama and his followers seek greater autonomy for Tibetans while keeping the region part of China. Beijing demands that the Dalai Lama publicly renounce any claim to Tibet's independence, and says he is welcome back as a religious leader, but may have no political role.

The Dalai Lama said he saw hopeful signs of an agreement. Direct contact between his envoys and Chinese officials resumed last year after an impasse of nearly a decade.

He called China's new president, Hu Jintao - a former top Chinese official in Tibet - "cautious," but said he hoped Hu will continue a process of liberalization. But he also said he was concerned about frustration among Tibetans after decades of Chinese rule, and amid an "overwhelming" influx of Chinese into Tibet. "Not necessarily intentionally, but unintentionally, the cultural genocide is taking place," he said.

Asked whether decades of frustration could lead to violence or even terrorism, he paused. "Oh, possible," the Dalai Lama said. "But up to now, Tibetans, in spite individual views or feelings, I think generally they listen to my approach. Strictly nonviolent."

www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-3132067,00.html

*******************

The Dali Lama On War
The Dali Lama spoke in Central Park this weekend. He said, "The very concept of war is out of date," he said to applause. "Destruction of your neighbor as an enemy is essentially a destruction of yourself."

I agree with that. I wish our leaders did too.

See the whole article at
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/22/nyregion/22DALA.html

********************

Anyone else see a split in thinking here? - Christine

...................................................................................................................................

From: Gisele
Date: Sun Dec 21, 2003 2:58 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] about Bush and Hitler

~~~~Good job Christine.Thank you!
Gisele

golden3000997 wrote:

George W. Bush's grandfather is called "Hitler's Angel". He was Hitlers financier in New York. - Christine

*********************************

...................................................................................................................................

From: holderlin66
Date: Sun Dec 21, 2003 7:54 am
Subject: Re: The White Rose link

--- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com,

golden3000997@c... wrote:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/hardman/hardman26.html

Christine has indicated with passion;

The White Rose..hmm, where would people dig up such a strange name. Last evening we were discussing at our table, that the Yellow Rose of Texas was the name of concubine from Santa Anna who took out the Alamo of Texas. Rosebud arises from the famous film, "Citizen Kane" I wake up with the White Rose and a highly heroic insight into the connections between Weimar and today. I have always understand Rosicrucianism and indeed the purified Rose, the white rose and the Burning Bush of Moses gives rise to a Lazarus event. In order to pass the thought police here, I will mention the fine film, "Casablanca" perhaps this is another word for White House now that I think of it.

In "Casablanca" there is not only a good story of those who took up the White Rose during the time of crisis that we can hardly understand from today's mall life but a snapshot of the type courage others were facing. There is Rick and Victor Lazlo, a true emblem of the White Rose. For a damn good instance and case in point listen up.

I had the 23, copy of a book by Arnold Wadler. "One Language Source of all Tongues" Wadler had to smuggle the book out, Nazi's trailing anthros and good ole Wadler found himself in a hospital and unable to claim his precious life's work. Boats were loading and confusion was everywhere. The hard, hard written and type written sheaths amounted to only one precious copy. And here we are today with the power of the written word at our fingertips..humbug!

Wadler was a pupil of Steiner's. He was on the Nazi list, the excuse my thought police, reference, a kind of reverse sorathian "Schindler's List" only these people, like the White Rose people were to be caught, executed or sent to cyanide chamber number 666.

Wadler's book tracing the Mother Tongue through hieroglyphics back to Atlantis and the roots of Language ranks as some of the finest research ever done. Who has read the book? Show of hands. I thought so. Great, great stuff out of work of our elders in the Michael School. My copy was a translation of a limited printing. If you have read it, you are stunned at what the pupils of Spiritual Science could do and the crisis in which they did it in. While as eyecue has stated, I sit back in my easy chair never having worked a day in my life.

Well a nurse in a hospital recovered out of the thousands of potential patients and meetings, the lost briefcase and work of Wadler and returned it to him just as with a heavy heart he was on the gangplank of the only boat that would get his body free of the deadly Pincers of the gestapo.

The nurse didn't turn Wadler into the thought police and Wadler never saw the person again as she disappeared into the crowds caught in the croosfire of fascism. She had recovered a portion of his soul and helped pass down through the generations, to me, a stunned glimpse into what language and the Word really means as it traveled through time from Atlantis to the current suffix and prefix of language roots.

Note 1936 and somewhere in some unrecognized corner of the world, as the world was turned upside down, Someone named WAdler in 1933 was piecing together the puzzle of Races, Languages and the source of the Mother tongue that goes back to Atlantis and comes out of hiding in the Logos of the Christ Event. Believe me, we're not worthy, we're not worthy we're not worthy. Bock, Poppelbaum, Konig, Morganstern, Wachsmuth, Eyecue's Walter Johannes Stein, who I love as well and have copies of some of his rare works, who could forget Edward Schure, thousands and thousands of mighty contributors to the Michael impulse and we get the pathetic Waldorf Critics.

4) Arnold Wadler: "the tower of Babel, Urgemeinschaft of the languages", 2. Edition Wiesbaden 1988; ders.: "Germanic primeval times", Basel 1936, reproduction Wiesbaden o.J. (1980)

Emotional education is hardly good enough. Our current divisions of opinion, left wing and right wing, were wet nursed in thought and language under the banners of Nominalism and Realism in previous incarnations. There is no doubt that self examination as to why our Michael Friends would choose a stand point of current events that is unpenetrated and unresearched or Intellectually sliced and diced, like the WC and the Critics..and fails them in their internal self observation to see and discern the events and the time we are living in, is a complex riddle.

It is just another Shallow unexplored layer of soul that no one can force another person to look at. The White Rose resonates in my understanding of heroic actions. The idea that today we are watching the unraveling of America before our eyes, probably and does have a resonation with the events of Weimar and 1933. We are very close to this and all it takes is a small financial, world market catastrophe to get the Patriot Act, the McArthy traitor syndrome up and running under the banner of Fundamentalism and "The Handmaid's Tale". We are very close to a return of Mcarthyism.

We naturally must be slightly stunned when our fellow Anthros have wrapped themselves in delusion and the American flag. Okay, so they aren't Platonic enough to get the wide window view of the situation, but rather as hard nosed, nose to the grindstone Aristotleites, they place on their priority, not giving a hoot about the ethical clarity of events, everywhere else, but rather focus on their own ten mile radius of life activity and give it their all. This is fine for me, I call you friend, but you are required to have self knowledge period. Just the slightest real time self knowledge is required.

But naturally and the point is that Germany was full of hard working individuals and many with good german ethics. Today in America we have the same looming situation. It is a call for those even faintly resembling Michael Thinkers, Moore, Franken, Vidal, Talbott, Chomsky, writers and blogs everywhere, to call in, if they so desire, their awakened observations of our Michael Time Period. Joel does this all the time, and so do many others in our world.

With the word at our fingertips, we have every ability to deep see into the world and into human destiny and hold it as our elders held us in their future eye. For what did they see but us coming into incarnation and Theirs and Our futures and they held a place open for us heroically. Thinking People know the current White House is the SPin Zone and we can put O'Reilly and his worm tongue in that along with Fox News. If you haven't understood this yet, you lack self knowledge and you need to get you some.

There are plenty of us who see the tone and tenor of the Michael Age and can put our finger on the pulse and tell you what it is and if it is failing it. Thoughts are spiritual signatures to the soul and vision of tenor of thought, tone of the I AM can be grasped in communication but is holier and brighter when eye meets eyecue.

[link]

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.runenhort.de/runenwis/ursprach.htm&prev=/search%3Fq%3DArnold %2BWadler%26start%3D20%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26sa%3DN

White Rose notes;

"What bravery is there these days in running around with an American flag? There are no British soldiers waiting to kill you. It doesn't quite have the same risk it used to. Most US flag wavers aren't confronting Israeli bulldozers about to demolish their homes. It's awfully nice to be on the proper side of a bully. For a while.

The White Rose was not about falling in line. It was designed and operated to point the light of truth at pure, disguised evil. It should be alarming to any man claiming to be an American patriot that the evil of Hitler's Germany was not only allowed to proceed, but supported strenuously in the name of patriotism.

From the sixth leaflet published by The White Rose:

"Freedom and honor! For ten long years Hitler and his coadjutor have manhandled, squeezed, twisted, and debased these two splendid German words to the point of nausea, as only dilettantes can, casting the highest values of a nation before swine. They have sufficiently demonstrated in the ten years of destruction of all material and intellectual freedom, of all moral substance among the German people, what they understand by freedom and honor. The frightful bloodbath has opened the eyes of even the stupidest German – it is a slaughter which they arranged in the name of 'freedom and honor of the German nation' throughout Europe, and which they daily start anew. The name of Germany is dishonored for all time if German youth does not finally rise, take revenge, and atone, smash its tormentors, and set up a new Europe of the spirit."

...................................................................................................................................

From: Tarjei Straume
Date: Sun Dec 21, 2003 1:37 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: The White Rose link

At 16:54 21.12.2003, Bradford wrote:

who could forget Edward Schure,

and:

We naturally must be slightly stunned when our fellow Anthros have wrapped themselves in delusion and the American flag.

That's something that happens to the very best among us. According to what I've heard or read somewhere, the warm and excellent friendship between Rudolf Steiner and Eduard Schure cooled off considerably after the Great War because of the positions they had held and the sympathies they had during that war. The war between France and Germany seems to have ruined the relationship between Steiner and Schure! Can anybody corroborate this with a reference, or is it just a rumor?

Regardless of the truth or lack of such behind this story, it proves the importance for anthroposophists to be "homeless souls" in the real sense of the word, i.e. liberated from sentiments associated with nationality, especially in times of strife.

Cheers,

Tarjei
http://uncletaz.com/

...................................................................................................................................

From: golden3000997
Date: Sun Dec 21, 2003 2:07 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: The White Rose link

Does being "liberated from sentiments associated with nationality" (Tarjie's words - direct quote - cut & pasted) mean not searching for the truth behind current events?

I am quite willing to be proved wrong about the information that I have found about the Bush family, FEMA and all of the other nastiness out there. I just want to live in a safe, peaceful world with my kitty cats and make up and tell fairy tales. Really. That's all I want. I don't want to struggle, fight useless and wrong headed fights and take a chance on social/ political ostracism or persecution!! Tell me all of these references are a big fat lie and show me the documentation that proves it so and I will be a very happy camper. Tell me Ahriman isn't going to incarnate for another couple of hundred years and there's nothing to worry about now and if I'm really, really good, I can stop incarnating and go to heaven with my kitty cats and never have to come back and deal with it again.

I have been told many times in my life that "you think too much." That's really true. Much too much!! I have been told, "You make everything too complicated. Just have simple faith and your life will be much better." That's true, too!!! Oh how much better my life would be!!!

I don't think I have anything to worry about as long as I keep my mouth shut, get off this internet thing and keep a good job. I am white, born Presbyterian and Republican in New Jersey. I have never been outside continental North America. True, I was married to a Nicaraguan for a while, but he was a refugee from the Sandinistas, so that's OK, isn't it? My siblings and their children seem to be perfectly content with the status quo, so I don't have to worry about doing anything to protect them or their children and I don't have any children of my own to worry about. I can just relax here with my books, music and videos; forget that I was ever a Waldorf teacher because I probably won't be again and I can cover those tracks if need be - it was a long time ago and I've even changed my name since then; save a little money and take a few cruises and get into soap operas when I retire. I have plenty to eat, clothes to wear and I don't need a car because I have public transit and everything is close enough.

There is absolutely no reason in this world why I should care about who is in power or what they are doing. It has nothing at all to do with me. I can "... paddle about in the Timeless." (direct quote from RS being funny - I'll get the reference in a sec.) to my heart's content and dream of Devachans and Archai and Michael fighting the Dragon for me and I am protected by Angels and don't have to do anything but believe that all is ultimately for the best.

So please - show me that all of these things I am reading and seeing on videos and hearing are lies and fabrications of mentally unstable people that want only to disturb my peaceful, patriotic life. But you have to do a good job, I don't want even an inkling of suspicion left. I would be eternally grateful.

Sincerely,
Christine

...................................................................................................................................

From: Tarjei Straume
Date: Sun Dec 21, 2003 2:14 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: The White Rose link

At 23:07 21.12.2003, Christine wrote:

Does being "liberated from sentiments associated with nationality" (Tarjie's words - direct quote - cut & pasted) mean not searching for the truth behind current events?

Quite the contrary: It means that one's vision of truth should not be blurred or compromised by sentiments associated with nationality.

Tarjei

...................................................................................................................................

From: Gisele
Date: Sun Dec 21, 2003 3:12 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: The White Rose link

golden3000997 wrote:

I am quite willing to be proved wrong about the information that I have found about the Bush family, FEMA and all of the other nastiness out there.

~~~~Wouldn' that be a huge relief?!!! But... no chance...

So please - show me that all of these things I am reading and seeing on videos and hearing are lies and fabrications of mentally unstable people that want only to disturb my peaceful, patriotic life.

~~~~I have felt that way so many times.... If it can be of any help, know that there are others out there who feel the same.

(And the number is growing daily)

Gisele

...................................................................................................................................

From: dottie zold
Date: Sun Dec 21, 2003 5:12 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: The White Rose link

Christine wrote:
I am quite willing to be proved wrong about the information that I have found about the Bush family, FEMA and all of the other nastiness out there. I just want to live in a safe, peaceful world with my kitty cats and make up and tell fairy tales. Really. That's all I want.

Hey Christine, I love you:) What you have shared may be right and it may be wrong or it may have some right and wrong in it. I think it is always good to just leave ourselves open to the possibility on both sides. Dr. Steiners says that even if you know you are right you must leave open some possibility that you may not be to a certain extent.

I personally trust this whole Bush affair. I trust there is a higher reason for it just as there is for all things even the most devestating. The point would be to understand if we can what is the overview of said happenings. What are we learning as a whole? What do you see? And not about how we can't trust Bush but what is happening all over the world.

Christine
I have been told many times in my life that "you think too much." That's really true. Much too much!! I have been told, "You make everything too complicated. Just have simple faith and your life will be much better." That's true, too!!! Oh how much better my life would be!!!

Dottie

You are so wonderful. Truly. One time a dear friend on the Ark hinted that my personal Ark was hitting the deep and mysterious troubled waters. And it was. And that is what happens when we are striving to be true to that which we came here for. Bahumnbug on those people who said you talked to much. You are a very intelligent, very caring and loving soul. We all have to work out our personal ways of being in front of others. Don't take them so serious. Obviously you are one who comes with a high energy great want for knowledge. And a fire personality. Good. And you are questioning good. But do not in your smallness rather do it in what you know is great about you. Do you know what is great about you? Has no one told you?

Christine
I don't think I have anything to worry about as long as I keep my mouth shut, get off this internet thing and keep a good job.

Dottie

Nope. Not really an option. For your great courageous loving spirit is assisting you on your journey. You will get what you came here for. And do you know what it is that you came here for?

Christine
I don't have to worry about doing anything to protect them or their children and I don't have any children of my own to worry about.

Dottie

I sense the world are our children Christine. You really really care. And you are so loved.

Christine
I can just relax here with my books, music and videos; forget that I was ever a Waldorf teacher because I probably won't be again and I can cover those tracks if need be - it was a long time ago and I've even changed my name since then; save a little money and take a few cruises and get into soap operas when I retire. I have plenty to eat, clothes to wear and I don't need a car because I have public transit and everything is close enough.

Dottie

Okay are we through yet with this little cry? Put on a great record and scream up to the Cosmos. Ask them what they hell they want from you? And it will be answered.

Love to you,
Dottie

p.s. Was it you who gave us that quote from Willliamson? I can not recall.

...................................................................................................................................

From: golden3000997
Date: Sun Dec 21, 2003 5:35 pm
Subject: Thanks Dottie!

Dottie wrote:

Okay are we through yet with this little cry? Put on a great record and scream up to the Cosmos. Ask them what they hell they want from you? And it will be answered.

Love to you,
Dottie

p.s. Was it you who gave us that quote from Willliamson? I can not recall.

Hi Dottie,

I'm not whining (at the moment) so much as responding to those who would insist that there is nothing to get worked up about with what is going on behind the scenes. I am just letting this particular "personality" out to play a bit. There is a lot of truth in it, though. There is a Chinese (I think) proverb/ blessing that says "may you live in uninteresting times." This would be a GOOD thing. Unfortunately, I think we missed that bit! Too late now!

Thanks for the pats on the head, though. As for asking "Them" what they want, I've been doing that for years. I have a really strong feeling that I'm not going to like it when I finally receive my "marching orders."

Yes, I forwarded a posting re Williamson from my Trippy Dippy Hippy group. You know, those people think a lot, too! A lot like us quite a bit of the time!!! I'm not saying she is this or that, I haven't really looked into what she's about. But that quote spoke directly to the conversation that was going around the other day.

There is a tremendous amount of syncronicity going around - don't you think?

I hope that you enjoy the Christmas lecture I posted. Right up our alley, I think!

Blessings and Joy for the Christmas Tide and may we receive the Light we need for 2004!

Love, hugs & kisses,
Christine

...................................................................................................................................

From: Daniel Hindes
Date: Sun Dec 21, 2003 4:57 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: The White Rose link

Schure, who after meeting Rudolf Steiner on May 24th, 1906 wrote something to the effect of "all my life I had studied the great initiates, but when I saw Ruldolf Steiner I was certain that I had actually met one" felt that Steiner's position during the first World War was favorable to the Germany, and sharply and bitterly denounced him as being "a political agent of pan-German strivings" in a letter sent July 1916, an attack he was to continue publicly throughout the war . I remember reading that they reconciled in 1922, when Schure apologized, but I can't find a reference for that right now.

Daniel Hindes

----- Original Message -----
From: Tarjei Straume

According to what I've heard or read somewhere, the warm and excellent friendship between Rudolf Steiner and Eduard Schure cooled off considerably after the Great War because of the positions they had held and the sympathies they had during that war. The war between France and Germany seems to have ruined the relationship between Steiner and Schure! Can anybody corroborate this with a reference, or is it just a rumor?

Tarjei
http://uncletaz.com/

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From: Tarjei Straume
Date: Mon Dec 22, 2003 5:32 am
Subject: Steiner and Schure

At 01:57 22.12.2003, Daniel wrote:

Schure, who after meeting Rudolf Steiner on May 24th, 1906 wrote something to the effect of "all my life I had studied the great initiates, but when I saw Ruldolf Steiner I was certain that I had actually met one" felt that Steiner's position during the first World War was favorable to the Germany, and sharply and bitterly denounced him as being "a political agent of pan-German strivings" in a letter sent July 1916, an attack he was to continue publicly throughout the war . I remember reading that they reconciled in 1922, when Schure apologized, but I can't find a reference for that right now.

Thank you Daniel! Perhaps a little historical research is in order here before it is abused by vindictive propagandists. (Peter S. has always insisted that Steiner was a pan-Germanist.) Does anybody know how and why Schure was led to this belief about RS?

Tarjei
http://uncletaz.com/

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From: Daniel Hindes
Date: Sun Dec 21, 2003 11:13 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: The contents of the White Rose link

[Dottie wrote:]

I too have also now come to understand that just as our current Govenor of California admired Hitlers ways of getting power and having people nationally proud of themselves to the detriments of others.

In fairness to Mr. Schwarzenegger I must point out that this is a distortion of his actual statement, though this is not the first time it has been taken out of context. We (anthroposophists) who are so often attacked with distorted quotes should be especially careful on this point.

"I admire him for being such a good public speaker and for his way of getting to the people and so on. But I didn't admire him for what he did with it." Arnold Schwarzenegger to reporter George Butler in a 1975 interview.

The irony is that Schwarzenegger's statement actually exemplifies Steiner's 4th preliminary exercise.

Daniel

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From: dottie zold
Date: Sun Dec 21, 2003 11:21 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: The contents of the White Rose link

Daniel on Schwarzenegger:
"I admire him for being such a good public speaker and for his way of getting to the people and so on. But I didn't admire him for what he did with it." Arnold Schwarzenegger to reporter George Butler in a 1975 interview.

Dottie

This to me is the same that I said above accept that I said I used 'national pride' sentiment as well. And who would possibly admire Hitler for what he did among rational minded people? And why would one think just because we remarke Hitlers way of doing things means it extends to the gas chambers. That is going to an extreme interpretation I think.

In California the people were not worried, at least the ones I knew, that Arnold meant he liked what Hitler did, rather it runs to what I was saying in comparison to Mr. Bush: there is a similar way of getting things done on a large scale level that is admired. A way of walking lock step to acheive ones goal irregardless of what it is.

Dottie

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From: dottie zold
Date: Sun Dec 21, 2003 11:34 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: The contents of the White Rose link

Daniel
The irony is that Schwarzenegger's statement actually exemplifies Steiner's 4th preliminary exercise.

Hi Daniel,

I agree here as well. The thought that comes to mind that there is a difference though if one emulates a certain thing to effect a certain outcome of said thing that has shown to be destructive to the cause of freedom. Than we have an issue I believe.

The Right has put out that the people who stand against Bush's preemptive doctrine, and other policies put forth by his administation, hate him. In all the people I am in contact with I do not know one who has said they hate him. They do not like his policies nor the double speak so apparent in all his work so far.

I am not happy about our new govenor for I sense it was a whitehouse takeover and makeover. However I hope to see him do good. I hope to see him unite and not divide. Only time will tell. And if he does well for the people, I will vote for him next time. If he does not I will not.

Dottie

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From: Daniel Hindes
Date: Sun Dec 21, 2003 12:00 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: The contents of the White Rose link

Dottie said:
I too have also now come to understand that just as our current Govenor of California admired Hitlers ways of getting power and having people nationally proud of themselves to the detriments of others.

To which I quoted Mr. Schwarzenegger:

"I admire him for being such a good public speaker and for his way of getting to the people and so on. But I didn't admire him for what he did with it." Arnold Schwarzenegger to reporter George Butler in a 1975 interview.

Dottie, you are reading the statement to be a praise of using nationalist or other sentiments to unite a body politic behind a charismatic leader. Your analasys of the Nazi's methods as exemplified by Hitler are accurate, but are not present in Mr. Schwarzenegger's statement. He said nothing about Hitler gaining power.

The phrase "getting to the people" is different from "getting the people". A native English speaker would probably say "getting through to people." I read only a praise of certain of Hitler's personal qualities.

Thus I read Schwarzenegger's statement differently than you. He is admiring the work Hitler the person had done on himself and the talents that he manifested, and then lamented that these were ultimately misused. Admittedly this is a very sensetive subject, something no public figure these days would ever touch with a 10 foot pole, because anything to do with Nazism is so emotionally charged for so many people that there can be no discourse on the subject. When the statement was dug up from a 1975 interview it was all over the news (the same news that everyone on this list claims can't be trusted on anything).

I will again reiterate my reason for bringing up this quibbling point: There is much in Anthroposophy that can easily be misread or misrepresented. If we request to be treated fairly by our critics, we must also treat fairly those we criticize.

Daniel Hindes

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From: dottie zold
Date: Sun Dec 21, 2003 12:47 pm
Subject: Re: The contents of the White Rose link

Daniel
Thus I read Schwarzenegger's statement differently than you. He is admiring the work Hitler the person had done on himself and the talents that he manifested, and then lamented that these were ultimately misused. Admittedly this is a very sensetive subject, something no public figure these days would ever touch with a 10 foot pole, because anything to do with Nazism is so emotionally charged for so many people that there can be no discourse on the subject. When the statement was dug up from a 1975 interview it was all over the news (the same news that everyone on this list claims can't be trusted on anything).

Hi Daniel,

I am right with you. The words I chose can be read as you have reported but they are not meant in the manner you understood. The subject was all over the news and it seemed obviously to me it was either a liberal plant or a McClintock plant. Either way I was only happy to see it because it really gave me a good look at my friends who are on the right. I got a chance to see they would overlook this of Schwarzenagger but God forbid if it was said about any of the Democrats. For me and my fellow Democrats it was more interesting to see how the Right responded versus how we felt about it. For us truly it did not register other than a 'now how are the republicans going to slip and slide under this one. What is going to be the outcome of their party. They were slipping and sliding on all other matters that usually get them spouting fire when it is a democrat and suddenly the shoe was on the other foot. Hitler...Sexual Harrassment...it was like a whoa nelly moment.

I personally feel that we have seen the end of the republican party as we have come to know it here in California. And I think that is a good thing for all involved. Governing from the center would be most perfect to me.

Thanks Daniel for pointing out the difference in my comments,

Dottie

p.s Daniel wrote:
I will again reiterate my reason for bringing up this quibbling point: There is much in Anthroposophy that can easily be misread or misrepresented. If we request to be treated fairly by our critics, we must also treat fairly those we criticize.

Dottie

I guess I feel I am being fair in my understandings. I don't like to hear people call Bush a moron, idiot and other choice names. I don't attend the peace rallies anymore because they are full of all kinds of nastiness towards the Bush administration. I think he is small minded and has hurt our country and our world for future generations to come. And I think his record bears this out.

Sincerely,
Dottie

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From: Daniel Hindes
Date: Sun Dec 21, 2003 2:37 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: The contents of the White Rose link

Dottie,
I hope you will forgive me for staying with this issue for far longer than it really deserves. I see your point about the Republicans, California and politics. From what I have heard, Schwarzenegger is really vulnerable on the issue of sexual harassment. The reason his alleged Nazi sympathies didn't really stick probably has a lot to do with his history of suppporting Jewish causes. All sorts of people prominent in Jewish causes stepped up to defend him.

What I find interesting is your statement to the effect of: "That may be what he said, but it is not what he meant." Pardon me for pointing it out, but that is exactly what the critics on the WC list do whenever an Anthroposophist quotes Steiner. To understand what he meant it might be helpful to read the whole interview, as well as the statements of the interviewer as to how he took it at the time. Knowing what he meant in spite of what he said is not the mark of an open mind. I would suggest that if you were to look into the matter further, you would find little to support your contention and much that is contradictory.

Daniel Hindes

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From: dottie zold
Date: Sun Dec 21, 2003 5:36 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: The contents of the White Rose link

Dottie,
I hope you will forgive me for staying with this issue for far longer than it really deserves. I see your point about the Republicans, California and politics. From what I have heard, Schwarzenegger is really vulnerable on the issue of sexual harassment. The reason his alleged Nazi sympathies didn't really stick probably has a lot to do with his history of suppporting Jewish causes.

Hi Daniel,

No, I do not mind us sticking here. I don't agree the Nazi sympathies didn't stick was because he has a history of supporting Jews. That never really came out in the paper. The reason it didn't stick is because it wasn't an issue for Democrats it was an issue for the Republicans. And because it was one of their own and they were damned determined to get a Republican in office they let it die. The democrats are a people of many natures but meanspiritedness is not a word I would apply to them as I can to the Republican Right.

Not only did they dismiss this charge and the sexist charge they also dismissed and are willing to dismiss a few other pet peeves of theirs: one being you must be american to be president and the other is that your wife must not be a democrat. Now these things may sound silly to you but from an insider as I have been welcomed they are very serious to my Republican Right friends. Very serious.

The only reason we had to have this election was because, I believe is because 1) Arnold was not prepared when he tested the waters when the original election was held and the stuff hit the fan about his groping, 2) the Republicans were convinced that Riordan could not be trusted because his wife is a democrat, 3) they forced Simon on us knowing he was weak. Now, I believe that Riordan would have beat Davis. I for one would have voted for him as I dig his initiatives. Now, not all of them but many of them.

And what happened. Simon lost because he was too extreme even though many of the democrats view Davis as a closet somewhat Republican. Interesting to know that Davis is more conservative than Schwarzenager to a certain extent: Davis was very good on heavy police support, no parole for convicted murderers and so on: but he was a democrat.

And MAria Shriver is a class A Democrat. It will be very interesting to see the outcome of this election and this man Schwarzeneggar. I was not for the recall because I felt it was a washington ploy that was in from the beginning. Even unto Hatch and another fellow republican looking to make it possibly if you are a naturalized citizen to become president of the united states after 30 years of being a citizen. Interesting timing I would say. But I think Mr. Scwarzenegger has a few aces up his sleeve that nobody except his wife knows about.

Daniel
What I find interesting is your statement to the effect of: "That may be what he said, but it is not what he meant." Pardon me for pointing it out, but that is exactly what the critics on the WC list do whenever an Anthroposophist quotes Steiner.

Dottie

I do not have it in front of me but I do believe I said 'that may be what 'I' said, but is not what I meant. I was not speaking of Arnold I was speaking of your interpretation of my comments regarding national pride.

Daniel
Knowing what he meant in spite of what he said is not the mark of an open mind. I would suggest that if you were to look into the matter further, you would find little to support your contention and much that is contradictory.

Dottie

Well, I will just let you go on this one as you have misinterpreted and misplaced my words as you can look below. I will leave just them so you can see of what I speak. You put in the words 'HE' when that is not what I said and I was referring to myself. My mind is very open and I look to be that as much as I humanely can. It is one of the most important aspects of spiritual research; to have an open mind.

Sincerely,
Dottie

I am speaking of my stating my original quote being what you reported but not what I meant to convey according to the words I spoke. I was saying in effect that you were right that my words can be understood in how you responded to them, and I wrote them, but your interpretation of that particular quote was not what I was trying to convey although I did understand how you came about that particular understanding through the words I chose in the previous post.

Dottie

The words I chose can be read as you have reported but they are not meant in the manner you understood.

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From: Tarjei Straume
Date: Sun Dec 21, 2003 6:01 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: The contents of the White Rose link

At 02:36 22.12.2003, Dottie wrote:

The democrats are a people of many natures but meanspiritedness is not a word I would apply to them as I can to the Republican Right.

Wait a minute. Tricky Dick learned all his dirty tricks from the Kennedys, when they did everything in their power to smear and destroy him after the 1960 election, where Jack Kennedy actually stole the presidency through election fraud. They had the power AND all the money to do it. Bobby Kennedy even abused his office as Attorney General by sending the IRS after Nixon's parents, trying to dig up some old tax irregularities, without success. And Washington was a hellish place to be during the reign of LBJ. He had J. Edgar Hoover collect all kinds of dirty secrets on his political opponents - if they were gay, which cat houses they went to, things like that. And he could prove it with photos, wiretaps etc. He used this leverage to make them vote his way on various issues. FDR accumulated so much power in this manner that they had to change the constitution to limit a president's time in office to 8 years; otherwise you would get presidents for life like they have in banana republics.

Frank Sinatra switched to the Republicans because of the way the Kennedys had treated him: They ask for his help to have the mob support their election, and when they won, they gave himn the cold shoulder and became his enemies in order to appear mob-clean.

Like Harry Browne said, there is only one political party in the United States: The demopublican party.

To say that one of those 2 parties is more ethical or moral or cool or whatever than the other is nonsense.

Tarjei
http://uncletaz.com/

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From: dottie zold
Date: Sun Dec 21, 2003 6:22 pm
Subject: Re: The contents of the White Rose link

Tarjei wrote:
To say that one of those 2 parties is more ethical or moral or cool or whatever than the other is nonsense.

Hi Tarjei,

Ethical and moral have nothing to do with it. I did not live in those days. I live in todays world and the Republican Right tend to be very meanspirited and I find it so disgusting. I am not speaking of moral codes and whathaveyou, I am speaking of a way of getting what you want and anihilating others to do it. And I am not speaking of all Republicans either I am speaking of the Religous right, the ones who claim God is on their side. They not only are taking away the American flag they are also trying to take away Christ. Spiritual people who tend to be open to various understandings of various Master Teachers are turned off by this Christ the Religious right claims. I have to constantly state 'lets get past what they say about God and lets get back to what Jesus says'. They are creating a false prophet scenario.

Why do you think the Democrats are so mad at their own stream and claim them not to have a backbone? Because they do not fight fire with fire. And the one who lies the best wins.

Dottie

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From: golden3000997
Date: Sat Jan 10, 2004 7:15 pm
Subject: (no subject)

http://www.jlrweb.com/whiterose/leafoneeng.html

Leaflets of The White Rose*

The First Leaflet

Nothing is so unworthy of a civilized nation as allowing itself to be governed without opposition by an irresponsible clique that has yielded to base instinct. It is certain that today every honest German is ashamed of his government. Who among us has any conception of the dimensions of shame that will befall us and our children when one day the veil has fallen from our eyes and the most horrible of crimes - crimes that infinitely outdistance every human measure - reach the light of day? If the German people are already so corrupted and spiritually crushed that they do not raise a hand, frivolously trusting in a questionable faith in lawful order of history; if they surrender man’s highest principle, that which raises him above all other God’s creatures, his free will; if they abandon the will to take decisive action and turn the wheel of history and thus subject it to their own rational decision; if they are so devoid of all individuality, have already gone so far along the road toward turning into a spiritless and cowardly mass - then, yes, they deserve their downfall. Goethe speaks of the Germans as a tragic people, like the Jews and the Greeks, but today it would appear rather that they are a spineless, will-less herd of hangers-on, who now - the marrow sucked out of their bones, robbed of their center of stability - are waiting to be hounded to their destruction. So it seems - but it is not so. Rather, by means of gradual, treacherous, systematic abuse, the system has put every man into a spiritual prison. Only now, finding himself lying in fetters, has he become aware of his fate. Only a few recognized the threat of ruin, and the reward for their heroic warning was death. We will have more to say about the fate of these persons. If everyone waits until the other man makes a start, the messengers of avenging Nemesis will come steadily closer; then even the last victim will have been cast senselessly into the maw of the insatiable demon. Therefore every individual, conscious of his responsibility as a member of Christian and Western civilization, must defend himself as best he can at this late hour, he must work against the scourges of mankind, against fascism and any similar system of totalitarianism. Offer passive resistance - resistance - wherever you may be, forestall the spread of this atheistic war machine before it is too late, before the last cities, like Cologne, have been reduced to rubble, and before the nation’s last young man has given his blood on some battlefield for the hubris of a sub-human. Do not forget that every people deserves the regime it is willing to endure! From Freidrich Schiller’s The Lawgiving of Lycurgus and Solon:

Viewed in relation to its purposes, the law code of Lycurgus is a masterpiece of political science and knowledge of human nature. He desired a powerful, unassailable start, firmly established on its own principles. Political effectiveness and permanence were the goal toward which he strove, and he attained
this goal to the full extent possible under possible under the circumstances. But if one compares the purpose Lycurgus had in view with the purposes of mankind, then a deep abhorrence takes the place of the approbation which we felt at first glance. Anything may be sacrificed to the good of the state except that end for which the State serves as a means. The state is never an end in itself; it is important only as a condition under which the purpose of mankind can be attained, and this purpose is none other than the development of all man’s power, his progress and improvement. If a state prevents the development of the capacities which reside in man, if it interferes with the progress of the human spirit, then it is reprehensible and injurious, no matter how excellently devised, how perfect in its own way. Its very permanence in that case amounts more to a reproach than to a basis for fame; it be comes a prolonged evil, and the longer it endures, the more harmful it is.... At the price of all moral feeling a political system was set up, and the resources of the state were mobilized to that end. In Sparta there was no conjugal love, no mother love, no filial devotion, no friendship; all men were citizens only, and all virtue was civic virtue.

A law of the state made it the duty of Spartans to be inhumane to their slaves; in these unhappy victims of war humanity itself was insulted and mistreated. In the Spartan code of law the dangerous principle was promulgated that men are to be looked upon as means and not as ends - and the foundation of natural law and of morality were destroyed by that law....

What an admirable sight is afforded, by contrast, by the rough soldier Gaius Marcius in his camp before Rome, when he renounced vengeance and victory because he could not endure to see a mother’s tears!...

The state [of Lycurgus] could endure only under the one condition: that the spirit of the people remained quiescent. Hence it could be maintained only if it failed to achieve the highest, the sole purpose of a state.

From Goethe’s The Awakening of Epimenides, Act II, Scene 4.
SPIRITS:
Though he who has boldly risen from the abyss
Through an iron will and cunning
May conquer half the world,
Yet to the abyss he must return.
Already a terrible fear has seized him;
In vain he will resist!
And all who still stand with him
Must perish in his fall.
HOPE:
Now I find my good men
Are gathered in the night,
To wait in silence, not to sleep.
And the glorious word of liberty
They whisper and murmur,
Till in unaccustomed strangeness,
On the steps of our temple
Once again in delight they cry:
Freedom! Freedom!

Please make as many copies of this leaflet as you can and distribute them.

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From: Tarjei Straume
Date: Sat Jan 17, 2004 2:15 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: The contents of the White Rose link

At 03:22 22.12.2003, Dottie wrote:

I live in todays world and the Republican Right tend to be very meanspirited and I find it so disgusting. I am not speaking of moral codes and whathaveyou, I am speaking of a way of getting what you want and anihilating others to do it.

Frank Zappa said:

The Meek Shall Inherit Nothing

Some take the bible
For what it's worth
When it says that the meek
Shall inherit the Earth
Well, I heard that some sheik
Has bought New Jersey last week
'N you suckers ain't gettin' nothin'

Is Hare Rama really wrong
If you wander around
With a napkin on
With a bell on a stick
An' your hair is all gone...
(The geek shall inherit nothin')

You say yer life's a bum deal
'N yer up against the wall...
Well, people, you ain't even got no
Deal at all
'Cause what they do
In Washington
They just takes care
of NUMBER ONE
An' NUMBER ONE ain't YOU
You ain't even NUMBER TWO

Those Jesus Freaks
Well, they're friendly but
The shit they believe
Has got their minds all shut
An' they don't even care
When the church takes a cut
Ain't it bleak when you got so much nothin'
(So whaddya do)
Eat that pork
Eat that ham
Laugh till ya choke
On Billy Graham
Moses, Aaron 'n Abraham...
They're all a waste of time
'N it's yer ass that's on the line
(IT'S YER ASS THAT'S ON THE LINE)

Do what you wanna
Do what you will
Just don't mess up
Your neighbor's thrill
'N when you pay the bill
Kindly leave a little tip
And help the next poor sucker
On his one way trip. . .
SOME TAKE THE BIBLE. . .
(Aw gimme a half a dozen for the hotel room!)

by Frank Zappa

Tarjei
http://uncletaz.com/

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From: Mike Helsher
Date: Sat Jan 17, 2004 8:08 am
Subject: An ode to Frank Zappa

Dearest Uncle Taz:

You are a man after my heart! (No sexual implications)

I was just thinking of the last verse of that song a couple of days ago. It was nice to read it while singing the melody. There's another one that goes something like:

He's got twenty million dollars in his heavenly bank account...

All from those chumps who was born again...

I saw him at an outdoor concert once. When he came out and did his sound check, it started to rain.

The crowd cheered: "stop the rain Frank...stop the rain Frank." He looked at us with his quintessential shit-eatin-grin and said, "ahh what the hell." He then raised his hands, looked up at the sky and said, "Will you please stop."

Well, I'll have you know that the rain stopped, and held off right up to the end of the show.

I loved Frank. Some of his stuff was a little to perverted for my taste, but I admired his courage, and uniqueness.

You ever hear the recordings of him debating with Tipper Gore in the US Congress. Absolutely fascinating. I wrote him in for President during the Regan years!

Truth and Love and Frank Zappa

Mike

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