help with rules of grammar please
From: Joel Wendt
Date: Mon Feb 2, 2004 10:44 am
Subject: help with rules of grammar please
Dear Friends,
I could use some help with what seems to me
to be basic rules of grammar, but which at the same time are
so "present" that their significance might be overlooked.
For example, we have a term "anthroposophical",
which involves the change from the noun "anthroposophy"
to what I assume is an adjective ("anthroposophical"),
by the dropping of the letter "y" and the adding of
the letters "ical". Is there some general rule for
this process?
For the German readers among us - where in
English I might read the term "anthroposophical", what
would be going on in German? The same process, a noun being made
into an adjective? What noun and what adjective?
As an adjective ("anthroposophical")
- how would we define its meaning? For example, I have seen translations
where the following is written "anthroposophical spiritual
science". I have always assumed that anthroposophy equals
spiritual science, but perhaps these are different. How is "spiritual
science" modified by the adjective "anthroposophical"
in such a sequence of words?
I have other questions, but defer them to
first becoming more grounded as regards the above.
warm regards,
joel
...................................................................................................................................
From: Daniel Hindes
Date: Tue Feb 3, 2004 8:30 am
Subject: Geisteswissenschaft
Joel,
I can attempt an answer to your question on
the gramatical level, namely how adjectives are built from nouns,
but this doesn't really answer your question.
The derivation of proper adjectives from proper
nouns can be quite complex in English. Without going into all
the details, how the adjective is built will differ depending
on a large number of factors, including the ending and whether
the word is a Latinate derivative (borrowed into English from
the Latin) or a Greek derivative.
"Anthroposophy" is built by compounding
the Greek words "Anthropos" with "sophia".
In English the result is "Anthroposophy" in German,
"Anthroposophie". Deriving the adjectival form is done
based on the rules of the respective language, so in German the
ending "ie" becomes "ische" for "anthroposophische".
In English two options are valid: you can simply drop the "y"
and use "anthroposophic" or you can replace the "y"
with "al" to make "anthroposphical". Or of
you are on the WC list, you substitute the word "Steinerite".
But your real question is "What does
'anthroposophical' mean?" This is really a subject for a
whole essay. More narrowly, if Steiner said "...anthroposophische
geisteswissenschaft..." translated as "anthroposophical
spiritual science" then I suppose he wanted to indicate
that there might be other spiritual sciences that are not anthroposophical.
But let us take a closer look at this word "Geisteswissenschaft,
aka spiritual science".
The word "Geisteswissenschaft" (created
by compounding the word "Geist" - meaning "spirit"
- with "Wissenschaft" meaning "science/research/scholarship")
is not one that Steiner made up. It is in general use in German,
but primarily in one specific phrase: "in der Geisteswissenschaft
tätig sein" where it means, "to work in research".
"Wissenschaft" is built off the German verb "wissen"
to know. The word "Wissenschaft" is actually also an
obscure English word, borrowed from the German, and in English
means "the systematic pursuit of knowledge, learning, and
scholarship (especially as contrasted with its application)"
according to the New Oxford Dictionary of English, 2002 edition.
This really gets at the nuances of the word in German, even if
every German-English dictionary lists the first meaning as "science".
My Langescheit's German-English dictionary also lists "research"
as a secondary meaning, along with "scholarship" and
"academia". So "Wissenschaft", the first
part of the compound, indicates the attempt to systematize knowledge.
This is modified by appending "Geistes" (translated
"spirit") to make "systematized knowledge of or
research into the spirit". "Wissenschaft" can
also be modified by other nouns, such as "Natur" (nature)
where it means "natural science" or "systematized
knowledge of or research into the natural world". In many
cases where the translation "spiritual science" is
used, I tend to think "systematic knowledge of the spirit"
would be better. In light of this, anthroposophical systematic
knowledge of the spirit would then be differentiated from other
systematic knowledge of the spirit, say, the Theosophical (and
there are important differences).
Daniel Hindes
PS: The next word in the German dictionary
is also interesting: "Wissenschaftsgläubigkeit"
- blind faith in science. Leave it to the German language to
have one word for that.
...................................................................................................................................
From: Frank Thomas Smith
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 10:16 am
Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Geisteswissenschaft
Daniel wrote:
The word "Geisteswissenschaft"
(created by compounding the word "Geist" - meaning
"spirit" - with "Wissenschaft" meaning "science/research/scholarship")
is not one that Steiner made up. It is in general use in German,
but primarily in one specific phrase: "in der Geisteswissenschaft
tätig sein" where it means, "to work in research".
"Wissenschaft" is built off the German verb "wissen"
to know. The word "Wissenschaft" is actually also an
obscure English word, borrowed from the German, and in English
means "the systematic pursuit of knowledge, learning, and
scholarship (especially as contrasted with its application)"
according to the New Oxford Dictionary of English, 2002 edition.
This really gets at the nuances of the word in German, even if
every German-English dictionary lists the first meaning as "science".
My Langescheit's German-English dictionary also lists "research"
as a secondary meaning, along with "scholarship" and
"academia". So "Wissenschaft", the first
part of the compound, indicates the attempt to systematize knowledge.
This is modified by appending "Geistes" (translated
"spirit") to make "systematized knowledge of or
research into the spirit". "Wissenschaft" can
also be modified by other nouns, such as "Natur" (nature)
where it means "natural science" or "systematized
knowledge of or research into the natural world". In many
cases where the translation "spiritual science" is
used, I tend to think "systematic knowledge of the spirit"
would be better. In light of this, anthroposophical systematic
knowledge of the spirit would then be differentiated from other
systematic knowledge of the spirit, say, the Theosophical (and
there are important differences).
Although true that "Geisteswissenschaft"
has a more ample meaning in German than in English (it can refer
to the arts or humanities in general - though I doubt it is still
often used that way by contemporary Germans.) With this in mind,
"anthroposophische Geisteswissenschaft" clearly differentiates
it from other activities which use (used?) that term. However,
I think I can safely say that there is no difference in the contemporary
meaning of the words "Wissenschaft" and "science",
except that science is derived from Latin (scientia, from scire=
to know), whereas Wissenschaft is Germanic, in which the root
"Wissen" = to know, is apparent without knowing anything
but German. Therefore if Wissenschaft implies "systematic
knowledege", so does "science". So, imo, to complicate
"spiritual science" by calling it "systematic
knowledge of the spirit" is, to put it mildly, not helpful.
Frank
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