Mel Gibson or RS

From: holderlin66
Date: Sat Feb 21, 2004 10:38 pm
Subject: Mel Gibson or RS

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2003/7/prweb73806.php

"In the current global clash of civilizations, I'm surprised that some Jewish leaders would protest a movie portraying the final hours of Christ's life. There is a great deal of pressure on Israel right now, and Christians seem to be a major source of support for Israel. For the Jewish leaders to risk alienating 2 billion Christians over a movie seems shortsighted," Haggard said. "On one hand, it actually feels trite," Haggard continues, "It would have been ridiculous for England to have launched a public relations effort against BraveHeart because it portrays William Wallace in a positive light, who led a rebellion against the British.""

Bradford comments;

Fish anywhere you like and put Steiner's name where Gibson's is and you have all the fuel you need to show an on going deep seated battle that does to Steiner that same as it does to Gibson and is using race baiting in a self serving manner.

The Fundamental Christians and George Bush are "Loving It" that Israel is in the spot they are in. Why? Because of the End Times Prophecy nuts. George Bush under his religious "Dominionism" and his mission from God to prepare Christians for "The Rapture" is doing his "I'm the saved drunk in the White House" dance with all his phony Fundie Sentient Soul macho slime.

Who will vote him back again? Those who race bait and can't wait for the entrance of Jesus back in the flesh, walking through Israel again with his digital camera and a japanese tour bus. If you want to do us a favor. Look at Race Baiting Gibson and how the Christians back the position of Israel, not because it is right, but because it is expected for the end times.

There are serious gazillion seller books depicting this end time scenario just the way Georgy Porgy and the U.S. is acting. The Chosen nation of Christians swept up in glory... give us a friggin break. Why do we dislike George Bush, because of the way his Neocon friends of Israel are playing George. George is being played and American Fundamentalism is buying it.

Gibson is really the center of or eye of the storm of all the complexity of the arguments that can easily be asked about RS as they can be about Mel Gibson. Anyone who squeaks out that the military intelligence and covert actions of the Mossad had anything to do with aspects of 9/11 goes really against the grain of the current, ARABS our enemies of Big Brother. There is a huge set up here and RS happens to be one tiny aspect of an argument. But I say, answer the argument with Gibson and all that Israel is covertly baiting in this mix.

Couldn't Steiner or The Stay Puff Marshmellow Man cause anti-semitism? What is the difference?

"A leading Jewish group has condemned Mel Gibson's controversial film about Christ, saying it could fuel anti-Semitism.

The Anti-Defamation League is the latest group to speak out against The Passion, Gibson's depiction of Jesus' crucifixion and events leading up to it, saying it was "dangerous".

In a statement, the group said the film showed Jewish authorities and the Jewish mob as being responsible for the decision to crucify Jesus.

Gibson's spokesman, however, said there was no suggestion of the film being anti-Semitic.

The Anti-Defamation League said the movie had been seen by Rabbi Eugene Korn, its director of inter-faith affairs.

No one associated with this film has any interest in fuelling hatred, bigotry and anti-Semitism

Mel Gibson's spokesman He said it contained "many dangerous teachings" that Christians and Jews had worked to counter.

He hoped that Gibson and his film production company would "consider modifying" the movie.

The group's national director, Abraham Foxman, added: "We are deeply concerned that the film, if released in its present form, will fuel the hatred, bigotry and anti-Semitism that many responsible churches have worked hard to repudiate."

But Gibson's publicist Alan Nierob said: "No one associated with this film has any interest in fuelling hatred, bigotry and anti-Semitism.

"In fact, Mel's interest is just the opposite as he has stated previously that this film is about love, hope, faith and forgiveness."

Gibson is director of The Passion, which stars The Thin Red Line's Jim Caviezel and Monica Bellucci. It features Latin and Aramaic dialogue and no English subtitles.

Earlier, Gibson himself said he believed the movie would "inspire not offend". "

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From: Frank Thomas Smith
Date: Tue Feb 24, 2004 9:23 am
Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Mel Gibson or RS

Bradford,

I'm also having trouble understanding you. Do you mean that MI (which? U.S.?) and Mossad were behind 9/11? - or only with "aspects" of 9/11? If so, I would be interested in seeing evidence of same, such that newspapers such as the NY Times (Pentagon Papers) and the Washington Post (Deep Throat), are covering it up.

Frank

[Bradford:]

Gibson is really the center of or eye of the storm of all the complexity of the arguments that can easily be asked about RS as they can be about Mel Gibson. Anyone who squeaks out that the military intelligence and covert actions of the Mossad had anything to do with aspects of 9/11 goes really against the grain of the current, ARABS our enemies of Big Brother. There is a huge set up here and RS happens to be one tiny aspect of an argument. But I say, answer the argument with Gibson and all that Israel is covertly baiting in this mix.

...................................................................................................................................

From: holderlin66
Date: Tue Feb 24, 2004 3:46 pm
Subject: Re: Mel Gibson or RS/Frank

--- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, Frank Thomas Smith wrote:

Bradford,

I'm also having trouble understanding you. Do you mean that MI (which? U.S.?) and Mossad were behind 9/11? - or only with "aspects" of 9/11? If so, I would be interested in seeing evidence of same, such that newspapers such as the NY Times (Pentagon Papers) and the Washington Post (Deep Throat), are covering it up.

http://paris.indymedia.org/article.php3?id_article=13259

Sunday Herald - 02 November 2003 Five Israelis were seen filming as jet liners ploughed into the Twin Towers on September 11, 2001 ... Were they part of a massive spy ring which shadowed the 9/11 hijackers and knew that al-Qaeda planned a devastating terrorist attack on the USA ? Neil Mackay investigates

THERE was ruin and terror in Manhattan, but, over the Hudson River in New Jersey, a handful of men were dancing. As the World Trade Centre burned and crumpled, the five men celebrated and filmed the worst atrocity ever committed on American soil as it played out before their eyes.

Who do you think they were ? Palestinians ? Saudis ? Iraqis, even ? Al-Qaeda, surely ? Wrong on all counts. They were Israelis - and at least two of them were Israeli intelligence agents, working for Mossad, the equivalent of MI6 or the CIA.

Their discovery and arrest that morning is a matter of indisputable fact. To those who have investigated just what the Israelis were up to that day, the case raises one dreadful possibility : that Israeli intelligence had been shadowing the al-Qaeda hijackers as they moved from the Middle East through Europe and into America where they trained as pilots and prepared to suicide-bomb the symbolic heart of the United States. And the motive ? To bind America in blood and mutual suffering to the Israeli cause.

After the attacks on New York and Washington, the former Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, was asked what the terrorist strikes would mean for US-Israeli relations. He said : "It's very good." Then he corrected himself, adding : "Well, it's not good, but it will generate immediate sympathy [for Israel from Americans]."

If Israel's closest ally felt the collective pain of mass civilian deaths at the hands of terrorists, then Israel would have an unbreakable bond with the world's only hyperpower and an effective free hand in dealing with the Palestinian terrorists who had been murdering its innocent civilians as the second intifada dragged on throughout 2001.

It's not surprising that the New Jersey housewife who first spotted the five Israelis and their white van wants to preserve her anonymity. She's insisted that she only be identified as Maria. A neighbour in her apartment building had called her just after the first strike on the Twin Towers. Maria grabbed a pair of binoculars and, like millions across the world, she watched the horror of the day unfold.

As she gazed at the burning towers, she noticed a group of men kneeling on the roof of a white van in her parking lot. Here's her recollection : "They seemed to be taking a movie. They were like happy, you know ... they didn't look shocked to me. I thought it was strange."

Maria jotted down the van's registration and called the police. The FBI was alerted and soon there was a statewide all points bulletin put out for the apprehension of the van and its occupants. The cops traced the number, establishing that it belonged to a company called Urban Moving.

Police Chief John Schmidig said : "We got an alert to be on the lookout for a white Chevrolet van with New Jersey registration and writing on the side. Three individuals were seen celebrating in Liberty State Park after the impact. They said three people were jumping up and down."

By 4pm on the afternoon of September 11, the van was spotted near New Jersey's Giants stadium. A squad car pulled it over and inside were five men in their 20s. They were hustled out of the car with guns levelled at their heads and handcuffed.

In the car was $4700 in cash, a couple of foreign passports and a pair of box cutters - the concealed Stanley Knife-type blades used by the 19 hijackers who'd flown jetliners into the World Trade Centre and Pentagon just hours before. There were also fresh pictures of the men standing with the smouldering wreckage of the Twin Towers in the background. One image showed a hand flicking a lighter in front of the devastated buildings, like a fan at a pop concert. The driver of the van then told the arresting officers : "We are Israeli. We are not your problem. Your problems are our problems. The Palestinians are the problem."

His name was Sivan Kurzberg. The other four passengers were Kurzberg's brother Paul, Yaron Shmuel, Oded Ellner and Omer Marmari. The men were dragged off to prison and transferred out of the custody of the FBI's Criminal Division and into the hands of their Foreign Counterintelligence Section - the bureau's anti-espionage squad.

A warrant was issued for a search of the Urban Moving premises in Weehawken in New Jersey. Boxes of papers and computers were removed. The FBI questioned the firm's Israeli owner, Dominik Otto Suter, but when agents returned to re-interview him a few days later, he was gone. An employee of Urban Moving said his co-workers had laughed about the Manhattan attacks the day they happened. "I was in tears," the man said. "These guys were joking and that bothered me. These guys were like, 'Now America knows what we go through.'"

Vince Cannistraro, former chief of operations for counter-terrorism with the CIA, says the red flag went up among investigators when it was discovered that some of the Israelis' names were found in a search of the national intelligence database. Cannistraro says many in the US intelligence community believed that some of the Israelis were working for Mossad and there was speculation over whether Urban Moving had been "set up or exploited for the purpose of launching an intelligence operation against radical Islamists".

This makes it clear that there was no suggestion whatsoever from within American intelligence that the Israelis were colluding with the 9/11 hijackers - simply that the possibility remains that they knew the attacks were going to happen, but effectively did nothing to help stop them.

After the owner vanished, the offices of Urban Moving looked as if they'd been closed down in a big hurry. Mobile phones were littered about, the office phones were still connected and the property of at least a dozen clients were stacked up in the warehouse. The owner had cleared out his family home in New Jersey and returned to Israel.

Two weeks after their arrest, the Israelis were still in detention, held on immigration charges. Then a judge ruled that they should be deported. But the CIA scuppered the deal and the five remained in custody for another two months. Some went into solitary confinement, all underwent two polygraph tests and at least one underwent up to seven lie detector sessions before they were eventually deported at the end of November 2001. Paul Kurzberg refused to take a lie detector test for 10 weeks, but then failed it. His lawyer said he was reluctant to take the test as he had once worked for Israeli intelligence in another country.

Nevertheless, their lawyer, Ram Horvitz, dismissed the allegations as "stupid and ridiculous". Yet US government sources still maintained that the Israelis were collecting information on the fundraising activities of groups like Hamas and Islamic Jihad. Mark Regev, of the Israeli embassy in Washington, would have none of that and he said the allegations were "simply false". The men themselves claimed they'd read about the World Trade Centre attacks on the internet, couldn't see it from their office and went to the parking lot for a better view. Their lawyers and the embassy say their ghoulish and sinister celebrations as the Twin Towers blazed and
thousands died were due to youthful foolishness.

The respected New York Jewish newspaper, The Forward, reported in March 2002, however, that it had received a briefing on the case of the five Israelis from a US official who was regularly updated by law enforcement agencies. This is what he told The Forward : "The assessment was that Urban Moving Systems was a front for the Mossad and operatives employed by it." He added that "the conclusion of the FBI was that they were spying on local Arabs", but the men were released because they "did not know anything about 9/11".

Back in Israel, several of the men discussed what happened on an Israeli talk show. One of them made this remarkable comment : "The fact of the matter is we are coming from a country that experiences terror daily. Our purpose was to document the event." But how can you document an event unless you know it is going to happen ?

We are now deep in conspiracy theory territory. But there is more than a little circumstantial evidence to show that Mossad - whose motto is "By way of deception, thou shalt do war" - was spying on Arab extremists in the USA and may have known that September 11 was in the offing, yet decided to withhold vital information from their American counterparts which could have prevented the terror attacks.

Following September 11, 2001, more than 60 Israelis were taken into custody under the Patriot Act and immigration laws. One highly placed investigator told Carl Cameron of Fox News that there were "tie-ins" between the Israelis and September 11; the hint was clearly that they'd gathered intelligence on the planned attacks but kept it to themselves.

The Fox News source refused to give details, saying : "Evidence linking these Israelis to 9/11 is classified............."

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From: Frank Thomas Smith
Date: Wed Feb 25, 2004 3:46 pm
Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Mel Gibson or RS/Frank

[Frank:]

Bradford,

I'm also having trouble understanding you. Do you mean that MI (which? U.S.?) and Mossad were behind 9/11? - or only with "aspects" of 9/11? If so, I would be interested in seeing evidence of same, such that newspapers such as the NY Times (Pentagon Papers) and the Washington Post (Deep Throat), are covering it up.

[Bradford:]

http://paris.indymedia.org/article.php3?id_article=13259

Sunday Herald - 02 November 2003 Five Israelis were seen filming as jet liners ploughed into the Twin Towers on September 11, 2001 ... Were they part of a massive spy ring which shadowed the 9/11 hijackers and knew that al-Qaeda planned a devastating terrorist attack on the USA ? Neil Mackay investigates

Oh, Neil Mackay, sure, that explains everything. Btw, any relation to Paul?

Frank

Beware of Geeks Bearing Gifts

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