Asuras

From: Tarjei Straume
Date: Sun Jan 4, 2004 4:24 pm
Subject: Asuras

Rudolf Steiner could not speak too much about the Asuras for some reason. The Asuras are retarded Beings of the Hierarchy of the Archai (Spirits of Personality). They are Beings who instead of furthering man's progress to independence, lure him into gross egoism. In the negative sense they now bear the name originally pertaining to the entire Hierarchy.

In a lecture held 22nd March 1909 entitled "The Deed of Christ and the Opposing Spiritual Powers Lucifer, Ahriman, Mephistopheles, Asuras" (GA 107), Steiner speaks a little about the Asuras, but thereafter almost nothing. In the lectures about World-Being and Egohood ("Weltwesen und Ichheit", 1916, GA 169), Rudolf Steiner speaks of how the profound secrets contained in the symbols of Jachim and Boas may be misused by secret brotherhoods:

There is very, very much contained in the old preserved symbols. Our age is called upon to understand these things, to penetrate into them. The contrast which will at one point be experienced between all that which is truly spiritual and that which will approach us when Keely's motor actually becomes reality, from the West, will be a much stronger contrast than exists today between Tolstoy's world view and that which now approaches us from the East. Oh, these things cannot be further spoken of!

In a lecture entitled "The Nature of Sub-Sensible Forces" ("Von Wesen der Kernenenergie" published in 1978 and later translated by Anthroposophic Press), the prominent mathematician and astro-physicist Georg Unger said about the above passage:

And that is connected with the mystery of evil and the silence which Rudolf Steiner maintained with regard to the Asuras. One senses from this utterance that one simply cannot speak further about this matter. If someone comes and says, "I would like to study quite quickly all that which Rudolf Steiner says about the Asuras," then one must say to him, "You can do that quickly, indeed, but you will still have nothing. You will only have something when you understand why he was silent about this point.

With this in mind, I think it's appropriate to quote what Steiner has to say about the Asuras in "The Deed of Christ":

Toward the end of the Atlantean epoch, the etheric body corresponding to the head came right into the physical head and gradually brought about self-consciousness in the physical body. Fundamentally speaking, man is still working at his unconscious transformation of the physical body, at the development of the consciousness soul. And in the age now approaching, those spiritual Beings known as the Asuras will creep into the consciousness soul and therewith into the human "I" or ego - for the "I" lights up in the consciousness soul. The Asuras will generate evil with a far mightier force than was wielded by the Satanic powers in the Atlantean epoch or by the Luciferic Spirits in the Lemurian epoch.

In the course of the Earth-period man will cast away all the evil brought to him by the Luciferic Spirits together with the blessing of freedom. The evil brought by the Ahrimanic Spirits can be shed in the course of karma. But the evil brought by the Asuric powers cannot be expunged in this way. Whereas the good Spirits instituted pain and suffering, illness and death in order that despite the possibility of evil, man's evolution may still advance, whereas the good Spirits made possible the working of karma to the end that the Ahrimanic powers might be resisted and the evil made good, it will not be so easy to counter the Asuric powers as earth-existence takes its course. For these Asuric Spirits will prompt what has been seized hold of by them, namely the very core of man's being, the consciousness soul together with the "I", to unite with earthly materiality. Fragment after fragment will be torn out of the 'I', and in the same measure in which the Asuric Spirits establish themselves in the consciousness soul, man must leave parts of his existence behind on the earth. What thus becomes the prey of the Asuric powers will be irretrievably lost. Not that the whole man need become their victim - but parts of his spirit will be torn away by the Asuric powers. These Asuric powers are heralded today by the prevailing tendency to live wholly in the material world and to be obliviouls of the reality of spiritual beings and spiritual worlds. True, the Asuric powers corrupt man today in a way that is more theoretical than actual. Today they deceive him by various means into thinking that his 'I' is a product of the physical world only; they lure him to a kind of theoretic materialism. But as time goes on - and the premonitory signs of this are the dissolute, sensuous passions that are becoming increasingly prevalent on earth - they will blind man's vision of the spiritual Beings and spiritual Powers. Man will know nothing nor desire to know anything of a spiritual world. More and more he will not only teach that the highest moral ideals of humanity are merely sublimations of animal impulses, that human thinking is but a transformation of a faculty also possessed by the animal - but he will take this view in all earnestness and order his life in accordance with it.

Man does not as yet entirely base his life on the principle that his true being descends from the animal. But this view of existence will inevitably arise, with the result that men will also live like animals, will sink into animal impulses, animal passions. And in many things that need not be further characterized here, many things that in the great cities come to expression in orgies of dissolute sensuality, we can already perceive the lurid, hellish glare of the Spirits we call the Asuras.

"The Deed of Christ and the Opposing Spiritual Powers Lucifer, Ahriman, Mephistopheles, Asuras", GA 107

Steiner says some very interesting things about Lucifer in this same lecture, but I'll save that for another post.

Cheers,

Tarjei
http://uncletaz.com/

[Continued in another thread]

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From: holderlin66
Date: Sun Jan 4, 2004 5:35 pm
Subject: Transparent Child/ and the Asuras

Tarjei offers a Steiner insight:

Toward the end of the Atlantean epoch, the etheric body corresponding to the head came right into the physical head and gradually brought about self-consciousness in the physical body. Fundamentally speaking, man is still working at his unconscious transformation of the physical body, at the development of the consciousness soul.

Bradford comments;

If we talk about a Transparent Child and the mystery of the 13th century we are looking also at a Reincarnation fact. Nothing, nothing has so infuriated Ahrimanic forces than Steiner's ability to name names. Here the Holy Rishis make an earthly appearance. Not only that but the Pleiades become the fontanel of the Divine Body. We kid not when we say the skeletal system is a clear Imagination of the Zodiac. We kid not. That is certainly by now, new age 101 but it comes as a total surprise to most people you speak with.

But suppose those Pleiades, if you ever looked at the early spiral unfolding of the hair growth of some children, there is a Fontanel and almost a galactic spiral of hair arises out of that.

Responding:

Dear friends

How would Fragments be torn from the I AM? On one part of the issue is how the Ring, as in Lord of the Rings, places a Ring on a finger and the I.D. the size and fit of the ring conforms itself to the bearer. You see to make a Gold and Cyanide based Ring that tunes itself to the higher Devachan workings of the Soul and Spirit, was obviously a work of alchemical, smithy, black magic. We can put aside for the moment the related concept of Wagner's Ring cycle.

What is connected to how the head forces are working down into the full operational field of the Consciousness Soul and how a small reflection of this is in the Fontanel and glactic spiral of the hair in newborns comes directly into the Science of the Rishis out of ancient Atlantis. In the 13th century they began work together again, as from Atlantis and in a rhythmic relation to the Atlantis time period, offered the newly minted higher Devachan form of the human I AM in the reconstruction of Christian Rosenkreuz.

Cloning Science, if it ever takes hold, will be a projection from the Earth Core forces, to fragment pieces of the divine form, and rework them and place them physically, regardless of soul or spirit, made to order embryo and Star forces, onto the Earth. Imagine that while the soul is its own species, a collection of all the Incarnations of one I AM, and the corpses and the life.... Remember Shakespeare, Alexander the Great could be stopping with his dust a bung hole, but connect this with out of these Stones I can make bread and you have an anti Sermon on the Mount. Bread of heaven can be passed around now between us using this electronic medium, but replicated I AM's, duplicated and running over the Earth, are fragments...Fish and Bread and fragments...Christ Science and Ahrimanic Science.

If you leave these imprinted cloned replicas of the I AM and star body around, because we have agreed with the current Ahrimanic science and never debated the profound Ethical horror of what Tarjei brought forward, we can create a schism, and an untold division and inspiration based soley on Intellect and matter. Do we wish to have our Star based incarnations and the matter we borrow to be re-engineered, re-designed and offered under arbitrary lab conditions as the new remake of your being? These are ethical indications that we are forced to consider. Which means we have had to take, Spirit time away from Earth and time to re-connect to Earth as a serious series of manifestations of the I AM, any I AM.

"I Am not yet born Perserve Me"

NOw, for those of you who have yet to see the new film, The Ring, it is interesting to see just what Being has inhabited the little girl out of which this movie, fiction, and thinking arises. "The Bad Seed" is a comparable reference, but if we look for some Asuric manifest deadly grip on a soul, on a physical being and all the way through to the electronic and visual seed forces in the Consciousness Soul, we see that the little girl in the Ring reveals that it will never stop, that there is an Evil so potent we dare not even discuss it.

I don't suggest that anyone study this film for an understanding of the Asuras, but the climate in which the thoughts that we are creating in the labs and the climate of science that tries to take hold of the good devachan forces of the I AM, cause a steel like impending grip that is comparable to if the Ring in Lord of the Rings had fallen back in the hands of Sauron. The Ring would have gripped the very forces of the I AM and projected it into Time. Suppose Frodo and Gollum had failed?

But you see, the 13th century and "The Chymical Wedding of Christian Rosenkreutz are real science stories of how the Devachan system of the human I AM and the higher members of the human being were remodelled by the powerful Christ Being and Lazarus. In the Chymical Wedding we look back up through the Seven Stars of the Rishis and up through the fontanel back to the core of how the human being was made.

Now tell me these connections are easy. I think not. There is a mighty climate of Asura activity coming right down with us into the pivotal Consciousness Soul region of the I AM. Zarathustra was given the task to bring the soul forces up past the Intellectual Soul and during the time of the Transfiguration, Christ was able to meet the efforts of the Two Jesus beings at the level of the Consciousness and Spirit Self condition. Here the mighty Thrones stepped in to the Jesus vehicle, and Christ centered himself, alone, with the full fusion and compression of the Father Forces. He sweated blood and changed the structure of the human being down through and past the bone marrow and the skeletal system.

Great Intensive work has been underway to head certain forces off at the pass. These are great heroic efforts and high courage in the realm of Earth. As they say, it ain't over till the fat person sings.

Great Work Tarjei.

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From: Tarjei Straume
Date: Sun Jan 4, 2004 7:16 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Transparent Child/ and the Asuras

At 02:35 05.01.2004, Bradford wrote:

How would Fragments be torn from the I AM?

That's one helluva good question. Something to do with the mysterious unforgiveable sin? I wonder why this description of Asuric Beings keep reminding me of Stephen King these days - perhaps because I just watched the TV miniseries "Storm of the Century". A fascinating piece of artistic craftmanship.

Tarjei
http://uncletaz.com/

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From: Tarjei Straume
Date: Tue Jan 6, 2004 1:57 am
Subject: Asuras: Gods of Horror?

Bradford wrote:

How would Fragments be torn from the I AM?

I wrote:

That's one helluva good question. Something to do with the mysterious unforgiveable sin?

The more I think about this, the more puzzled I am. It looks terribly sinister, and Steiner had to stop himself from talking about the Asuras because the Spiritual Powers that Be would not give him permission to continue. The fallen Archai Spirits who eat up chunks from your "I" in a manner that cannot be reveresed! Here we are, taking all this heat from Lucifer and Ahriman and their combined mischief, luring us into all kinds of errors and blunders and tragedies. But it's all redeemable and forgivable and repairable through the Christ Impulse and through karma and karmic justice. It can all be fixed, and Lucifer becomes completely redeemed if we do it right. But what the Asuras are doing to us cannot be fixed; they eat up chunks of our egos that we never get back. No wonder I'm reminded of Stephen King, the Master of Horror. Imagine meeting clones of ourselves on the streets, armies of them, created by the Asuras. They carry chunks of our most intimate selves; they're part of us, subected to the control of Superdemons forever. And it cannot be fixed! And Steiner is not allowed to speak about it! Oh Gee....

Tarjei
http://uncletaz.com/

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From: Joel Wendt
Date: Tue Jan 6, 2004 6:48 am
Subject: Ahriman and Lucifer under the bed, and now the Asuras hiding in the closet.

Dear Tarjei,

Who do you serve? What spirits? If you promote fear, you serve Ahriman, yes? So we should take something Steiner said, never consider he might be wrong, or make a mistake, and make this uncheckable statement into a bedtime horror story?

Certainly we should not think, for that would be too much. Better we should emote all over the place, and thoughts be damned (they are way too much trouble).

Of course, it always helps when promoting fear to have an authority to rely upon, so that you don't have to be responsible yourself for your actions - I mean, after all, Steiner said it, so it must be true, and we always can easily understand what he said.

Some obvious cautionary thoughts to the conclusion you support...

Does Steiner say the I-am, or the ego? Are those always the same? What does it mean to speak of a higher and lower ego in this context? Is it possible it is "parts" of the lower ego that the Asuras dine upon, while the I-am (certainly a piece of the Father God) remains outside their appetites?

Maybe Steiner couldn't speak about it because his audience would do exactly what you are doing, which is to make it into some horror story, and never really think it through (they did that a lot didn't they?).

Are the Asuras outside Creation (that is not something that the Father God intended)? How do you know?

If they are outside Creation, then logically the Father God has limits, and perhaps should be reduced in stature, and the Asuras raised to a higher level of worship - I mean, they can undo creation, can they not in your theory of the case (eat the I-am)?

I always put this question: If there are bad guys superior in power to the Hierarchies of Light, then why does Creation still go forward, for if they (the bad guys) had more power, then certainly by now they would have used it to permanently undo the Creation, yes?

If they have not done this, then something holds them back, and I don't think we can logically say it is their patience in waiting for the proper moment to dine out on the I-am. Certainly they would strike when we are weakest, not when we are strongest?

Yet, Creation continues and humanity begins to leave behind its spiritual childhood, gaining strength and uprightness with each passing epoch. Something then holds the Asuras in check, for what predator waits for its prey to gain power.

If they can be held in check, which seems obvious, then something is a power superior to theirs (the Father God's Love?). We are the beneficiaries of that Love, so why tell this horror story, especially since it is clear that you don't have any personal and real knowledge in the first place?

And speaking of stories, did this stuff come from those apocalypse lectures to the Priests? Boy does that one have a bad history. People use it to create unreasoning fear about Islam, and now you are using it to create unreasoning fear about the Asuras. Maybe the folks that took the notes for that lecture did a very very bad job, and that lecture should be considered quite unreliable in any case. Maybe Steiner was having a bad hair day?

shivering regards,
joel

Have you ever met an Asura? I'd be surprised if you had, so what gives you the authority to tell such a horror story? It can't be Steiner said, because he was pretty clear on the flaws in taking that course of action.
--
Joel Wendt

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From: Tarjei Straume
Date: Tue Jan 6, 2004 10:12 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Ahriman and Lucifer under the bed, and now the Asuras hiding in the closet.

At 15:48 06.01.2004, Joel wrote:

Dear Tarjei,

Who do you serve? What spirits? If you promote fear, you serve Ahriman, yes? So we should take something Steiner said, never consider he might be wrong, or make a mistake, and make this uncheckable statement into a bedtime horror story?

Well Joel, I guess I'm a fear-mongering servant of the Asuras then :)

Certainly we should not think, for that would be too much. Better we should emote all over the place, and thoughts be damned (they are way too much trouble).

I never claimed to be much of a thinker either, but I've always appreciated groups like this so I can vent all my uncontrollable passions :)

Of course, it always helps when promoting fear to have an authority to rely upon, so that you don't have to be responsible yourself for your actions - I mean, after all, Steiner said it, so it must be true, and we always can easily understand what he said.

In this case, the guru I worshipped blindly was Georg Unger.

<snip>

Does Steiner say the I-am, or the ego?

In the case at hand (in connection with the Asuras), Steiner was talking about the "I" to be precise.

Maybe Steiner couldn't speak about it because his audience would do exactly what you are doing, which is to make it into some horror story, and never really think it through (they did that a lot didn't they?).

Quite the contrary. It is apparent from Unger's remarks about the topic that Steiner probably had much weightier reasons when he said he could not talk about it further. I am sorry if my humorous remarks upset you, but those remarks, or "conclusions" if you like, would not have been possible if Steiner had not remained silent beyond what he indeed did say about the Asuras.

<snip>

And speaking of stories, did this stuff come from those apocalypse lectures to the Priests?

No, Joel. I gave the exact reference, like I always do: The lecture lecture held 1. January 1909 entitled "The Deed of Christ and the Opposing Spiritual Powers Lucifer, Ahriman, Mephistopheles, Asuras" (GA 107). The lectures to the priests you mention were held fifteen and a half years later - in September 1924.

Boy does that one have a bad history. People use it to create unreasoning fear about Islam, and now you are using it to create unreasoning fear about the Asuras.

The lecture about Lucifer, Ahriman, and the Asuras says nothing about Islam. Fear is something people create for themselves. Personally, I am not afraid of Islam, and I am not afraid of the Asuras. My reference to Stephen King and horror was meant humorously.

Maybe the folks that took the notes for that lecture did a very very bad job, and that lecture should be considered quite unreliable in any case. Maybe Steiner was having a bad hair day?

I disagree. The cycle to the priests is top notch, and extremely important. It was Steiner's last lecture cycle. The lecture from 1909 about spiritual powers opposing Christ is also very interesting. But if you want to write it off as insignificant because it scares you, that's your prerogative.

shivering regards,
joel

Now you're the one reminding me of Stephen King. Since he was a kid, he has loved things that go bump in the night, and everything occult is one big shiver down the spine.

Remember the wise words of FDR: You have nothing to fear except fear itself.

Have you ever met an Asura?

I hope not, but it's possible I've encountered them in my dreams when you mention it.

I'd be surprised if you had, so what gives you the authority to tell such a horror story?

Sophia, the moderator for this group, has given me the authority to tell any stories I please here, including horror stories. And I assume Yahoo! doesn't mind, so I have their authority too. Plus the authority of the First Amendment.

Cheers,

Tarjei
http://uncletaz.com/

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From: Joel Wendt
Date: Tue Jan 6, 2004 4:15 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Ahriman and Lucifer under the bed, and now the Asuras hiding in the closet.

On Tue, 2004-01-06 at 11:12, Tarjei Straume wrote:

Sophia, the moderator for this group, has given me the authority to tell any stories I please here, including horror stories. And I assume Yahoo! doesn't mind, so I have their authority too. Plus the authority of the First Amendment.

I see, so neither real knowledge or the truth should be looked for in what you post to the list, since it is all about free speech, but not knowledge or truth.

Thanks for explaining that to me. Now I'll know better what to take from your posts.

joel

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From: Tarjei Straume
Date: Tue Jan 6, 2004 10:03 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Ahriman and Lucifer under the bed, and now the Asuras hiding in the closet.

At 01:15 07.01.2004, Joel wrote:

I see, so neither real knowledge or the truth should be looked for in what you post to the list, since it is all about free speech, but not knowledge or truth.

Yep. If you don't want to look for real knowledge or truth in my posts, that's your prerogative. No authority is telling you how to treat it.

When Jesus was talking about how "the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" [Mt. 8:12], I kinda hear the pharisees asking: "...what gives you the authority to tell such a horror story?" - And Jesus says, well, you better believe it so it doesn't happen to you, or something like that. Or he might have said, the Old Man Upstairs gave me the authority. He loves them horror stories, because they remind him of the good old days.

Cheers,

Tarjei
http://uncletaz.com/

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From: holderlin66
Date: Tue Jan 6, 2004 10:42 am
Subject: Ahriman and Lucifer in bed with the Sciences

--- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, Joel Wendt wrote:

Some obvious cautionary thoughts to the conclusion you support...

Does Steiner say the I-am, or the ego? Are those always the same? What does it mean to speak of a higher and lower ego in this context? Is it possible it is "parts" of the lower ego that the Asuras dine upon, while the I-am (certainly a piece of the Father God) remains outside their appetites?

Very nice work Joel;

My fingerprints and the J Edgar Hoover claim to fame as he got his junior G men.. I guess it meant Government Men, with little spy kits on the march to locate an develop systems where the I Am, rather the lower Ego of the I AM, could be tracked were hardly differnt than the brown shirts. It is important to hold in our consciousness that Hoover and Hitler came in on the same wave and stream of incarnations as Heaven kicked Ahrimanic beings onto the plane of the Earth. Hitler was far more flawed than Hoover, Hoover was far more cunning and came in under the wires and entered America with amazing spiritual stealth. At least four presidents were hijacked by Hooverism holding their private lives as hostages.

But let us examine what lower ego replication is around for linking itself to the identity of one aspect of the Immortal I AM. The immortal I am, we know, incarnates as male and female and enters from the Heavens and in this case, the starry regions, are indicators as to the framework of zodiacal codes and capacities that the Spirit needs. The Spiritual Being, the higher ego, drops into the hereditary stream which is running more horizontally and the spiritual stream runs more vertically.

Here the vertical concept reveals that as the sheaths of the lower ego are used to educate and transform and grow the capacity of the higher ego, eventually, as with the Angels, man loses his physical form, sheds it. Man rises a stage higher and sheds his etheric form and replaces it with something higher.

Now this shedding is part of what we see in nature as a carapace. A snake skin; A chrysalis or insect, beetle casing disposed of and a new skin arising. In the animal kingdom, winter coats, antlers and fragments of the animal fall away, are shed.

In the human I AM a skin, temple, garment, cohesively imprinted by the incarnating I Am, bears a unique clinical and physical stamp that is not like the sheddings, moltings and casings of the animal kingdoms. In the human being, the Eye Identity is unique and used as high security checking. The fingerprints are used as criminal I.D markers.

Today cloned and faked voice Identification, advanced technology can imitate Osama's Voice and we cannot ever be certain if the Voice I.D. the vocal patterns are real or not. Therefore technology has advanced in scare tactics in order to keep the country guessing if John Poindexter was able to do more damage. The truth folks is that technology of fear is far more advanced than Poindexter has led us to believe. I hope some of you are following this and if not raise some questions. Just as fingerprints can be plastically made and anyone, anybody can be convicted of a crime, once the fingerprint is on file with some agency.

Therefore finding fingerprints at the scene of a crime, is to say that the old Hoover science has been shed and is now being used for other covert actions. Passports and Identites of 9/11 hijackers have been proven to be false and the idea that after the full implosion and fire of the plane that hit the WTC, a passport, unburned of one of the hijackers was found on the ground of the WTC destruction, is as mad as the bullet that zig zagged through Kennedy and hit everything else and came out of two bodies without a dent. If you rely on the threats of voices and tapes of terrrorists, we are looking at the immense foolishness of the media and the madness and stupidity of humanity.

All along the Watchtower we can see that the closer we come to the Heat signature of a human being, the iris, the fingerprint, the voice pattern and the DNA, we come to all the potential replication factors of what the I AM uses and disposes of as it strides from cradle to grave. The I AM incorporates in male or female alternating physical, etheric, astral and lower ego vehicles. The I AM participates with the shaping of a new karmic journey and patterns of the stars are wed with the very heartbeat of the human being in question. What can be used, eaten, duped, replicated, copied becomes more interesting if we ascend into etheric copies, astral copies and lower ego copies. The horizon of research widens considerably as we see what potential copies can be used in freedom and what copies can be stolen and imposed on the health and understanding of the human being.

Christ talked of destroying the Temple and rebuilding it in three days. This is an interesting remaking in matter and structure of the I AM out of the Immortal portion beyond the lower ego. Reproducing portions of our liver or crabs growing new arms or nano technology able to supply new body parts from the signatures of the old take us into technology that reaches into fallen Devachan issues. Copies of all sorts of beings, if they were serial killers or astral shells left from executions, cyanide deaths of souls already darkened and inhabited by infested astral beings.. allows an astral shell to resonate in the near by astral world.

This path of human technology, virus copy, virus enhancement, super virus experimentation and biological warfare are creating links to wider and wider regions of cellular and molecular mysteries. These very mysteries in human beings are the result of the Higher I AM kernel of Spirit re-creating and re-introducing itself into the stream of cellular existence and imprinting the hard wiring of physical, etheric, astral and I.D. Identity that allows us to understand the nature of replication. Or why culture, in mass produced cds or cell level or virus level copies, draw off of neighboring worlds of astral, etheric and lower ego shells. In labs and sciences enhanced and targetted epidemics can be and are being manufactured.

So indeed Joel, you hit the nail on the head and it is no less a cause for concern. It is rather a failure of our ethics, a failure at profoundly discussing the kind of safeguards.. as an example i.e., that were introduced by Jeremy Rifkin to safeguard Insurance companies from making a denial of coverage based on the genetic print out and potential that the human being reveals in his/her blood and sperm. Insurance companies could deny coverage based on placing risk at the cellular and genetic levels. In other words by catching the human being at the door of cellular incarnation all the potential diseases, addictions and intelligence, including a predetermined rank in society a demographic or genographic range of salary.

Once again, I will rebuild this Temple in three days and the understanding that indeed Augustine had a copy, alongside his own etheric body, of the Jesus etheric body. That many others have had copies of the Christ astral body. So there are going to be, whether we keep up with the research of the universe or not, there are going to be attempts made to replicate the lower ego, in cohesion of etheric sheath, astral sheath and lower ego sheath.

That is one reason we look to Christian Rosenkreuz and the 13the century and the the incarnation that followed that. Christ rebuilt the Temple, the I AM, molecular model and took out the aspects of the Fall. This rebuilt temple model is an Atma or Spirit Man model. You will recall the Vocal Identification of how Mary Magdalene heard the tone, as in devachan tone of voice when the Resurrected Christ uttered her name..The warmth and tone was the same I.D. that Mary had recognized in the physical body of Jesus before the Crucifixion, now arose as a Tone trigger in the A.D. version.

Now finding the tonal resonation of the etheric and astral region of viruses or pathologies of the astral body incubated in humans, is very much like the higher tuning that Magdalene did instinctively when she tuned into the tonal identification of the Christ being. Here we are in the unique region of atomic table tone and soul, spirit Devachan tone origins. This is all science and why we anthros are not hitting back with real science sometimes worries me.

The counterpoint to human research, as research in the sciences, tends to disregard the Christ Event as the highest level of science, while on the other hand, everything that the Christ achieved is agressively sought for in every military and covert budget, only with the intent of serving what is paid well by the government intelligence agencies. These appeal, not to our higher intellects but the covert Ahrimanic fear infested world destruction aspect of opposing Michael Science.

When I request that we keep up on the Michael side with the advances that are ripped out of the imitation forces on the Ahrimanic side, it is so that we can maintain a slender ethical and critical handle on all that has been achieved since 1998/9. At this point the critical technologyies to freeze Light, create super viruses that are targeted at specific etheric and genetic points in various races, like sickle cell, ebola, Aids, Sars and the new improved super weapon of Smallpox made in military labs recently, deal with targetted astral, etheric and lower ego brain patterns that are ahead of our discussions on conterpoint from the Michael School.

In understanding the time line of incarnation between J.E. Hoover and his influence in the U.S. all the way up to all the X-file episodes and the more obvious Ahrimanic plant, in Hitler and his overt, disgusting abuse of science... Ahriman was able to influence humanity enough so the U.S. envied and admired what Hitler had done in sterilization of those that human beings that Camp HIlls Villages take up. It was, after all the U.S. that was the model for the sterilization campaigns that Hitler so envied. In this envy and information exchange, Ahriman is won far more P.R. than those who understand, now in 2004 what some of the intents are and where they are headed. But many in the U.S. adored, admired and gravitated to Ahrimanic slant of Science and bribed, stole, kidnapped and took as many German Science personalities as possible and from this, we have continued avoiding the cosmic contribution of the Christ and the Michael Sciences.

Bradford

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From: Steinerhead
Date: Tue Jan 6, 2004 3:29 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Asuras: Gods of Horror?

In a message dated 1/6/04 10:00:17 AM anthrouncle writes:

But what the Asuras are doing to us cannot be fixed; they eat up chunks of our egos that we never get back. No wonder I'm reminded of Stephen King, the Master of Horror. Imagine meeting clones of ourselves on the streets, armies of them, created by the Asuras. They carry chunks of our most intimate selves; they're part of us, subected to the control of Superdemons forever. And it cannot be fixed! And Steiner is not allowed to speak about it! Oh Gee....

This is pretty scary Tarjei! I immediately thought of Frodo's stab-wound, that would never heal.

In Star Trek there is "The Borg" with there cube shaped ships. "You will be assimilated" was there motto, along with "resistance is futile." Human beings being assimilated into the machine world, completely devoid of any individuality. This metaphor is more and more present in our modern times.

"The Terminator" has some significance metaphorically with "Judgment Day." I personally have trouble getting past Arnie's "pumped up" personality though.

Darth Vader was a good one: half machine, half human. I was awed when Luke took his mask off; there was a deformed human being under all that scary black costume. He was redeemed in the end though, wasn't he, because he still had some good in him.

But there was no hope for the Emperor: "Beware the dark side... fear, anger, aggression... once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny". "Forever" is an interesting word here; It has been defined as just "everlasting" in a world where time as we know it exists. Vaders path was dominated till the end of his life in time. Eternity on the other hand is something quite different. The emperor seems doomed for eternity. Where there is no individuality left in the eternal realm. Has he been eaten by the "gods of horror?"

Agent Smith was an eater of individuality also. All those living in the Matrix were consumed by him. And there was the idea that his rein was "inevitable." The Oracle could not see past him. But then again there was redemption for some, in Neo's Christlike self sacrifice. But not for Smith.

I used to hate the line in "Amazing Grace" that says: "'Twas Grace that taught my heart to _FEAR_ ... I always replaced the word _fear_ with the word _feel_, as this was true for me. Reading your post has persuaded me to start using the word "fear" again.

Perhaps these "Asuras" are necessary for us, in as much as they provide an unanswerable question about the nature of good and evil...

Grace and Fear

Mike

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From: Tarjei Straume
Date: Wed Jan 7, 2004 1:16 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Asuras: Gods of Horror?

At 00:29 07.01.2004, Mike wrote:

I used to hate the line in "Amazing Grace" that says: "'Twas Grace that taught my heart to _FEAR_ ... I always replaced the word _fear_ with the word _feel_, as this was true for me. Reading your post has persuaded me to start using the word "fear" again.

It's that baggage from Martin Luther's catechism: "You shall fear and love God..." I'm not sure what Luther meant by fear, but I can't imagine loving someone I'm afraid of.

Grace and Fear

No, Grace and Fearlessness!

Tarjei

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From: Steinerhead
Date: Wed Jan 7, 2004 7:47 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Asuras: Gods of Horror?

In a message dated 1/7/04 9:17:17 Tarjei wrote:

At 00:29 07.01.2004, Mike wrote:

I used to hate the line in "Amazing Grace" that says: "'Twas Grace that taught my heart to _FEAR_ ... I always replaced the word _fear_ with the word _feel_, as this was true for me. Reading your post has persuaded me to start using the word "fear" again.

It's that baggage from Martin Luther's catechism: "You shall fear and love God..." I'm not sure what Luther meant by fear, but I can't imagine loving someone I'm afraid of.

Grace and Fear

No, Grace and Fearlessness!

OK, I officially withdraw the Grace and Fear concept, and I am sticking to my rewritten version of the song:

"'Twas Grace that taught my heart to FEEL, and Grace my Fears RELIEVED...."

Incidentally, I just learned this year that the melody for that song came from the humming of slaves, chained together in the belly of a sailing ship that was bringing them to the new world of freedom.

Truth and Love

Mike

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