Twisted Anthroposophy

 

From: Tarjei Straume
Date: Thu Jan 22, 2004 2:30 pm
Subject: Twisted Anthroposophy

At 14:06 22.01.2004, Diana wrote:

Tarjei, I gotta drop the arguments about science, just lack of time.

As far as I'm concerned, the arguments against Steiner's take on science, not only when the topics may be legitimately controversial, but also when they're based upon falsehood, are far less important than the attacks launched against his personal moral character. You may believe that Sharon "knows her stuff," but she paints a portrait Rudolf Steiner that is utterly false. In Sharon's depiction of Steiner's anthroposophy, there is no room for a Christ-impulse that brings out the very best in people and enhances humanity's noblest inclinations. In her world of "anthroposophy", there is black magic, sinister rituals, dark conspiracies and an evil grand master who made a sinister plot to kidnap the children of unsuspecting Waldorf parents, destroy them psychologically, and to create a future master race of human robots who have not developed any self-dependent 'I' through a philosophy of freedom, but who have become the mindless puppets of Rudolf Steiner's "hidden agenda."

Like I pointed out in my previous post, this occult suspense drama of Sharon (that may read like a Stephen King novel) feels like a blast from the past when we read Christina Stoddard alias "Inquire Within." And for that reason, I'll try to squeeze in the time to quote the entire ninth chapter from her book, "Trail of the Serpent," which is dedicated to the topic Rudolf Steiner and Anthroposophy in a vein not dissimilar to that of PLANS.

No doubt we mean different things when we say we are "really interested in anthroposophy," but I am honest in my claim and not trying to say anything cynical or coded by that. I assure you my interest in anthroposophy is genuine.

In that case, I'm at a loss to understand how come you seem to have such a twisted grasp of it.

It took MONTHS – no – YEARS for me to begin to accept that the beautiful dream was just that, and that the problems really were systematic and could not be understood without reference to the underlying belief system, and the culture that comes out of it. The stories from too many schools were too similar.

In other words, you don't like the anthroposophical belief system and culture. That would make your professed interest in the subject inspired by antipathy and your purpose in spending hours and days and weeks and months and years learning more about it, to persuade others to abhor it too. Am I right?

So, of course when I read it now I have a quite different perspective than when I started, but I truly cannot be accused of not having studied anthroposophy seriously and sympathetically, and attempted to "do the work"

Again, I don't understand how you can turn it upside down if you have studied it seriously and sympathetically, and attempted to "do the work"

I am usually trying not to laugh on the critics list, when anthroposophists condescend to me that I obviously know very little about anthroposophy or Waldorf schools. I am wrong, they say, to imagine that anthroposophy explains what happens in Waldorf classrooms. Tell that to the teachers I worked with.

If you want me (or someone else on this list) to tell something to teachers you have worked with, invite them to Anthroposophy Tomorrow.

In my observation the many "New Age" religions are not much of an improvement over the hellfire and brimstone I was raised with.

I have a comment about that further below in this post.

It is also quite different to do it temporarily for an obvious reason like breaking your thumb – rather than, as a small child, to have this painful and confusing thing forced on you for no apparent reason.

If you move to England and like to get around by car, you may have to adjust permanently to operating a stick shift with your left hand when negotiating traffic and gassing up with your left foot. There are plenty of right-handed British motorists who don't say that this has damaged or hurt them in any way.

Steiner described future spiritual evolution, corresponding to the Apocalypse of St. John, when humanity will be divided in two groups: Those who accept the Christ Impulse and those who reject it.

Ayyyyiiiiiiiiiieeeee. Once again, that's how you get me to run for the hills, Tarjei, dividing humanity into those who accept Christ and those who don't, no thank you, been there and done that. What a stupid threat it is, why do religious people think it is progress to divide humanity into camps this way, it is very primitive thinking if you ask me. Hey, ask me again next lifetime.

What seems to give you the creeps and make you run for the hills in this case is not Anthroposophy alone, but almost every variety of Christianity. The difference between "Old Age" Christianity and the New Age angle you find in Anthroposophy is that in the latter, there is fairness and justice. Your eternal destiny is not determined by your conduct and choices in one life only. You're not only given a "second chance," but hundreds and perhaps thousands of chances. And what you become is not determined by any set of beliefs, but by your moral evolution as a complete human being. If this is more creepy to you than the old-fashioned hellfire-and-brimstone fundamentalism where people are hurled into an eternal lake of fire because they hold the wrong beliefs, I don't understand your logic.

Cheers,

Tarjei
http://uncletaz.com/

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From: winters_diana
Date: Sat Jan 24, 2004 9:02 pm
Subject: Re: Twisted Anthroposophy

Hi guys, whew, so much to reply to. And it's hard for me, since I have to wait for Peter Staudenmaier to tell me what to say :)

Tarjei:
In Sharon's <snip>. . . anthroposophy, there is black magic,

You read Sharon with "antipathy" I think Tarjei. Sharon says clearly anthroposophy is white magic. But Sharon is tolerant of all beliefs, and not really any more distressed by "black" than by "white" magic.

I'd agree with this position. I think you're the one worked up about things that go bump in the night :) What's the big deal with black magic? I've known Satanists who seemed like nice people to me. Is there something even spookier than Satanism? I am teasing you a bit, I think you are the one interested in "occult suspense dramas," I think you do believe in "black magic." Anyway speaking of paganism, pagans often feel Waldorf is too Christian.

My friend looks over my shoulder and says "Satanists are better than telemarketers."

My first few weeks in the Waldorf school, I remember noticing (and setting aside my annoyance) that parents were not told clearly how Christian the school was. I didn't know too much of Steiner yet, but I noticed that in the song the kindergarten children sing,

"Waken, sleeping butterfly, burst your narrow prison,
Spread your golden wings and fly,
For the sun is risen"

the last line could also be heard, "The Son is risen," and I thought that was a clever but rather unfair way (sung right before Easter) to be proselytizing Christianity to the tiny tots without the parents' full understanding. I had a lot to learn yet about the symbol of the butterfly and the sun in anthroposophy! They may as well have been hoping parents would hear "Son" and not "sun"!

sinister rituals,

No, anthroposophy's rituals are not "sinister," they're quite lovely. I don't recall Sharon describing sinister rituals.

I spent a lot of time in Waldorf classrooms and I saw no sinister rituals.

dark conspiracies

I don't know about any dark conspiracies, and if Sharon knows secrets about dark conspiracies, she's keeping them from me :) My angle is similar to Sharon's which is mainly that Waldorf schools should be open about their esoteric base.

I would say there is more interest here in conspiracies than among Waldorf critics. I do believe the pictures that little rover on Mars is sending back are real. :)

and an evil grand master who made a sinister plot to kidnap the children of unsuspecting Waldorf parents,

I thought we cleared this one up. They don't kidnap anyone, and have never been accused of such to my knowledge.

destroy them psychologically, and to create a future master race of human robots who have not developed any self-dependent 'I' through a philosophy of freedom, but who have become the mindless puppets of Rudolf Steiner's "hidden agenda."

Whatever you say, Tarjei, you've spun your own tales now. The "hidden agenda" Sharon refers to refers to Waldorf education, I believe, and obviously it is hidden from many parents that anthroposophy is the agenda. Hey, wait a minute - doesn't "hidden" mean "occult" which is the same thing as spiritual? So what's the problem with Waldorf having a hidden agenda yes?

In other words, you don't like the anthroposophical belief system and culture. That would make your professed interest in the subject inspired by antipathy and your purpose in spending hours and days and weeks and months and years learning more about it, to persuade others to abhor it too. Am I right?

I doubt I have ever persuaded anyone to abhor anthroposophy, or could persuade anyone to if I tried.

No – I know you don't understand this (you guys seem stuck in this sympathy/antipathy thing), but my interest is genuine.

What seems to give you the creeps and make you run for the hills in this case is not Anthroposophy alone, but almost every variety of Christianity.

That's right, it wasn't a specific criticism of anthroposophy. You were quoting the Bible to me, something about lining people up and asking if they accept Christ, and I've had that stuff quoted to me quite a bit.

The difference between "Old Age" Christianity and the New Age angle you find in Anthroposophy is that in the latter, there is fairness and justice. Your eternal destiny is not determined by your conduct and choices in one life only. You're not only given a "second chance," but hundreds and perhaps thousands of chances.

<sigh> It's gonna get too deep for me here, I honestly am just out of time and energy for this and am trying to leave :) My view is that karma is not justice, but a cynical admission that there is no justice. I mean, it only works if you believe you have many lifetimes ahead!

Please don't get me wrong. I have nothing against reincarnation. I like the idea, personally. There is a sense in which I consider it true – but metaphorically, and not the way you guys mean it or Steiner meant it. If it turns out to be literally true, and I can come back, wonderful! I like it here and would love to come back - to this life, that is; not "anthroposophy_tomorrow," though you all have been very hospitable as well, in your own way :)
Diana

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From: holderlin66
Date: Sat Jan 24, 2004 10:24 pm
Subject: Re: Twisted Anthroposophy/boo-hoo

--- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, winters_diana wrote:

Hi guys, whew, so much to reply to. And it's hard for me, since I have to wait for Peter Staudenmaier to tell me what to say :)
I'd agree with this position. I think you're the one worked up about things that go bump in the night :) What's the big deal with black magic? I've known Satanists who seemed like nice people to me. Is there something even spookier than Satanism? I am teasing you a bit, I think you are the one interested in "occult suspense dramas," I think you do believe in "black magic." Anyway speaking of paganism, pagans often feel Waldorf is too Christian.
My friend looks over my shoulder and says "Satanists are better than telemarketers."

Bradford comments;

Now character assassination, Ahriman's army of puppets, tearing down spiritual science or fighting to see through the sham of the Bush Administration; fighting to keep the infection of anti-Spiritual Science gangs in brown shirts with P.S. written on them from marching in goose step with Rush Limbaugh towards the goal of hijacking opinion and reality into the bosom of Ahriman, next to the heart of Rupert Murdoch... has failed and we hang our heads in shame that we ever lumped you together with such hyenas. We never meant to accuse any of you of supporting the Christian Right or the Christian totally DUMB AND DUMBER. I know you only want the best for us and I think this letter of apology says it all. I hope you take it, exactly the way it was meant. You certainly don't - couldn't - wouldn't - have the ugly malice of Racism and subversive accusations against Steiner, with his immense character flaws, at the heart of your arguments. I think all of us here recognize your good intentions. I just want to say that we are humbled in the presence of such integrity and honesty and the wide spread Michael School offers this confession of our guilt and our deep admission that your Cult is much wiser than our Cult.

We See That Now
A heartfelt -- no -- abject -- no -- craven apology to the right from the left for our campaign of hate, anger and malice against God's own president.

By Tony Hendra
Issue Date: 2.1.04

We confess. It's all true. Everything you say. We trafficked in hate. We did it in anger. Just as you said, Mr. Kristol, Mr. Krauthammer, Mr. Brooks: We poisoned the airwaves and befouled the sheets of our nation's most august publications. We attacked a sitting president, impugned his integrity, smeared his family, invaded his privacy, tried desperately to drag him down to our own filthy, rock-bottom, sewer-dwelling level. There is no parallel between your measured criticism of Bill Clinton and our vile attacks on George W. Bush. Bill Clinton deserved everything thrown at him because a corrupt and evil man who gains the White House by underhanded means should be attacked with every weapon at the disposal of a free press. And yes, it's true, just as your more sagacious radio hosts have maintained: Hillary Clinton does owe her success to the practice of witchcraft. And no, it's not true that ridiculing Chelsea at the most vulnerable stage in her development was the media equivalent of child molestation. Chelsea Clinton was fair game because she is the spawn of Satan. Scurrilous of us to suggest that the tirelessly moderate and civil proponent of these and so many other truths, Robert Bartley, now resides in the circle of hell reserved for hate-mongers and bigots! Mr. Bartley dwells in the bosom of his Republican creator. We see that now.

George W. Bush cannot be, as we've screamed till we're blue in the face, the cretinous finger puppet of an incalculably cynical and malevolent cabal and a ruthless neo-Confederate, bent on creating a plutocratic ruling class at home and a rapacious corporate imperium abroad. He's one or the other. We cannot have it both ways. We see that now.

Similarly, we can hardly denigrate Rupert Murdoch and his "gutter press" while at the same time carping that without him the right would be a marginalized mob of obscurantist paranoids kept on life support by retrograde trust-fund nut jobs. Mr. Murdoch is a great populist. Lowest-common-denominator programming is an honorable tradition in both the United States and the United Kingdom. Taking such programming to China, where he is equally solicitous of a proto superpower whose interests are frequently inimical to ours, does not mean that Mr. Murdoch is giving aid and comfort to the enemy, or that NewsCorp's money is somehow "tainted." It's despicable of us to suggest that all those hardworking journalists -- from Bill O'Reilly to William Kristol -- who take his supposedly dirty money are likewise tainted! We see that now.

What demon put into our so-called minds the idea that the ghastly tragedy of that bright morning in September 2001 might have been prevented because the Bush administration had received warnings for a month that some sort of attack might be coming? And that the president and his advisers had ignored that intelligence and then made use of the tragedy to seize the draconian emergency powers they craved and get the economy back onto a perpetual-war footing? How could we even entertain such thoughts? What venom flowed through our hate-infarcted hearts?

We're sorry for our endless ranting about oil being the lifeblood of the Bush family circle, and The Carlyle Group existing as nothing more than a gigantic corporate kickback to its members for faithful service while in office, and the Bush team comprising the selfsame men who supported Saddam Hussein to the hilt while he was committing most of his genocidal atrocities and therefore making them his guilty accomplices. These are vicious, hateful untruths. We see that now.

The First Amendment does not give us the right to screech that young Americans are dying in Iraq so that George W. Bush can get himself legitimately elected president. It's a bald-faced lie that his bald-faced lies about weapons of mass destruction cost them their lives. Our brave men and women in uniform know when they enlist that there is always the chance they may have to pay the ultimate sacrifice. Their motives are never -- as we so squalidly claimed in the wake of the Jessica Lynch affair -- to get a higher education because the military is now the sole conduit to it for the two-thirds of Americans who can't afford it. What a despicably mercenary motive to impute to our heroes! And in any case, why isn't the re-election of an epochal president a lofty patriotic aim, worth the sacrifice -- as our great defense secretary has implied -- of a few lives? Why would this aim fill us with rage and hate, instead of quiet pride?

We were wrong to call George W. Bush's huge tax cuts legalized looting, wrong about the replacement of a $5 trillion surplus with a $3 trillion deficit. No, that is not $8 trillion down the drain in three short years. We arrived at that ridiculous conclusion by juggling the figures. If you're as egregiously partisan as we, you can make figures prove anything. We see that now.

We apologize from the bottom of our hearts for our unfounded suspicions about the plane crash that killed Minnesota Sen. Paul Wellstone and his family. Only a wild-eyed conspiracy nut would link it to the crash had killed Missouri Gov. Mel Carnahan. Nostra culpa! Grief unhinged our better judgment. Hey, Democrats die in planes around election time. That's life. We better get used to it.

What drives us to ask -- so shrilly, so annoyingly -- why Ken Lay still isn't in prison? Are we really certain that he deprived hundreds of thousands of people of their savings? That he helped hatch a plot to bring down the Democrats in California by destabilizing that state's power supply? So what if that's now happened? Has Mr. Lay done anything that is technically wrong?

Realizing now the awesome power of prayer, we'll stop praying every moment of every day that Tom DeLay gets snatched up in the rapture. We realize, too, that the sign in his office -- "This Could Be The Day" (i.e., Judgment Day) -- does not utterly disqualify Mr. DeLay from assessing the best long-term interests of the nation. We believe, with him, that the poor are entirely to blame for their own poverty, and that if -- sorry, when -- our savior returns, he will indeed own a concealed-carry permit. We know now that Mr. DeLay is not precisely the kind of religious lunatic the Founders had in mind when separating church and state; that he and his co-religionists are in no way brutish, heathen, hate-driven humbugs whose fundamentalism makes Osama bin Laden look like the archbishop of Canterbury. We hope and pray that Mr. DeLay will guide the destiny of America till the trump of doom. Even if it is next Tuesday.

Looking back on the decade-plus of our boundless ill will and partisan fury, we've come to understand something absolutely vital about that glorious year 1989, the year you won the Cold War: The reason the Cold War had to be won was that it made the world a two-party system. One of them had to go. It's the same in our great nation. What's the point of having two (or even one and a half) parties when it leads to nothing but unending conflict, frustration, stagnation and despair? For America to bring the message to the world that ours is the best and only way, we must have unanimity. One party indivisible under God.

Yet ever since 1989, we've been fighting a new Cold War -- in Congress, in the culture, in the media, in the nation's schools and courts and bedrooms.

It's time for us to ... surrender. We're tearing down the Berlin Wall of rage and malice we've erected between you and us. We do this before it is too late, before you reach the point where you will be forced -- however reluctantly -- to investigate us, confiscate our property, search our houses, seize our personal records, detain us sine die, suspend habeas corpus, take reprisals against our loved ones, hold show trials, send us to re-education camps -- whatever you in your impeccable judgment deem necessary to preserve the homeland from, well, the likes of us.

But -- a huge "but," we know -- if in your great hearts you can find the room to forgive us, if even the meanest of positions can be found for us in the new dispensation, let us serve you. We'll do anything you want, no matter how menial: deleting hard drives, wiretapping journalists, delivering bags of cash to senators, transporting assets to the Caymans, firing pregnant Mexicans, evicting the disabled, laying bets for virtuous windbags, beating up young gay men, escorting Muslims to the border, performing sexual favors for The Heritage Foundation -- whatever you need we'll do it, and for free.

Some of us even have advanced skills to put at your disposal. We could help discredit Europe's socialistic health and welfare systems and nonprofit public utilities so The Carlyle Group can privatize them. We could produce inspiring movies about the great Americans who are ushering in the thousand years of prosperity that are just around the corner. We could create upbeat news stories for the Ministry of Truth you plan for George W. Bush's second term.

We come to you not just as sinners but as supplicants, begging not just forgiveness but inclusion. There's a reason God named the right the right: Because it's right. You have a monopoly on the truth, and you always have and you always will.

We see that now. We really do.

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From: holderlin66
Date: Sat Jan 24, 2004 10:42 pm
Subject: Re: Twisted Anthroposophy/boo-hoo

--- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66" wrote:

Bradford comments;

I know you only want the best for us and I think this letter of apology says it all. I hope you take it, exactly the way it was meant. You certainly don't - couldn't - wouldn't - have the ugly malice of Racism and subversive accusations against Steiner, with his immense character flaws, at the heart of your arguments. I think all of us here recognize your good intentions. I just want to say that we are humbled in the presence of such integrity and honesty and the wide spread Michael School offers this confession of our guilt and our deep admission that your Cult is much wiser than our Cult.

The Black Magic Cult of Sado Racism dedicates this song to all those who have suffered under Steiner's whoop -DEE - DOO cosmic fantasies.

We're so sorry Uncle Albert
We're so sorry if we caused you any pain
We're so sorry Uncle Albert
But there's no one left at home
And I believe i'm gonna rain
We're so sorry but we haven't heard a thing all day
We're so Sorry Uncle Albert
But if anything should happen we'll be sure to give a ring

We're so sorry Uncle Albert
But we haven't done a bloody thing all day
We're so sorry Uncle Albert
But the kettle's on the boil and we're so easily called away

Hand across the water (water)
Heads across the sky
Hand across the water (water)
Heads across the sky
Admiral Halsey notified me
He had to have a berth or he couldn't get to sea
I had another look and i had a cup of tea and butter pie
(the butter wouldn't melt so i put it in the pie)

Hand across the water (water)
Heads across the sky
Hand across the water (water)
Heads across the sky

Live a little be a gypsy, get around(get around)
Get your feet up off the ground
Live a little, get around
Live a little be a gypsy, get around(get around)
Get your feet up off the ground
Live a little, get around

Hand across the water (water)
Heads across the sky
Hand across the water (water)
Heads across the sky

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From: Tarjei Straume
Date: Sun Jan 25, 2004 6:53 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Twisted Anthroposophy

At 06:02 25.01.2004, Diana wrote:

My first few weeks in the Waldorf school, I remember noticing (and setting aside my annoyance) that parents were not told clearly how Christian the school was. I didn't know too much of Steiner yet, but I noticed that in the song the kindergarten children sing,

"Waken, sleeping butterfly, burst your narrow prison,
Spread your golden wings and fly,
For the sun is risen"

the last line could also be heard, "The Son is risen," and I thought that was a clever but rather unfair way (sung right before Easter) to be proselytizing Christianity to the tiny tots without the parents' full understanding. I had a lot to learn yet about the symbol of the butterfly and the sun in anthroposophy! They may as well have been hoping parents would hear "Son" and not "sun"!

Reminds me of an old Star Trek episode with William Shatner and Leonard Nimoy and those guys. They'd been to a planet where there was a lot of strife with spears and swords, and where some people talked about being inspired by the sun - well, that's how Captain Kirk and his crew understood it. But on their way home to the Starfleet base or whatever, Uhura shows how sometimes women have a keener understanding of spiritual things than men (something also pointed our by Steiner in connection with how it was women who discovered that Christ had risen from the dead). Uhura explains to Kirk that those people weren't talking about the sun, but the son, the Son of God! Christianity all over again on a distant planet!

Christ is the God of the Spiritual Sun and the Emissary of the Sun Beings, the Elohim. It's a peculiarity of the English language that the Son and the Sun are homonyms; they are one and the same: The origin and sustainer of our existence.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not." - John 1:1-5

Clever and unfair? Only for those who suffer from some kind of Christophobia.

I don't know about any dark conspiracies, and if Sharon knows secrets about dark conspiracies, she's keeping them from me :) My angle is similar to Sharon's which is mainly that Waldorf schools should be open about their esoteric base.

I remember Sharon's WC posts were about sinister secrets in Anthroposophy that went bumb in the night. I'll get back to it if I can.

Cheers,

Tarjei
http://uncletaz.com/

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From: b m bryanmiller
Date: Sun Jan 25, 2004 8:34 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] To Diana

Diana
At some point here you said something about trying to leave. If you mean leaving the group, I hope you don't do it. I like your e-mails. And not only because you made a reference to Bart Simpson, eh. You are a sensible and good person, and it's interesting and fun to read what you write. Thanks for being open to a civilized dialogue.
Bryan

winters_diana wrote:

Hi guys, whew, so much to reply to. And it's hard for me, since Ihave to wait for Peter Staudenmaier to tell me what to say :)

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From: golden3000997
Date: Tue Jan 27, 2004 7:38 pm
Subject: To Diana

Diana,

Like 98.7% of people in this world, you don't have a clue what the word "science" really means. Above all, scientific methodology requires holding any thesis "with a light hand." Being open minded and willing to examine and acknowledge incoming data (my terminology.) You have proven yourself far from being a scientific person. As with the masses today, Science for you is the new Superstition or Religion.

To people who think like you do, men in white lab coats with clipboards have become a substitute archetype for men in black cassocks with rosaries. People speak about Science as they used to speak about God. And they are as little willing to work at understanding Science as people have been reluctant to truly seek God for themselves. How many people who play the "Science Says" game have looked into an electron microscope, or understand how fractals are created, or have sat up night after endless night gazing through an observatory telescope, seeking for a tiny blip that could mean the existence of a previously unknown planet or even solar system? I have not done these things myself, but I know that if I ever wanted to speak about Science with any real insight, I would have to have some of this type of experiential (epistomological??) knowledge to start with.

More than half of the ideas, theories and conclusions that the population considers as "real" and validated by Science will be repudiated by Science itself within a few years at the most. There have been libraries of information once regarded as "scientific fact" that would now appear laughable. But most people do not consider this and say, "Science is constantly contradicting itself, finding its own conclusions wrong and often substituting 180 degree opposite views faster than a spinning top. Therefore, Science is not to be trusted. Science cannot give us a true perception of the world, its origins and process of development. If it could, it would always be right." No, people do not say this. They say, "Science (meaning the cataloging and classification of natural phenomenon) is the ONLY line of true inquiry. Science is the ONLY means of establishing truth. Science by (common) definition deals ONLY with materially measurable phenomena and therefore there cannot be any Scientific fact to be discovered outside of this materially measurable phenomena. If Science contradicts its own findings, that is all the more proof of its committment to truth and the fundamental reason why we should trust it implicitly. Science may not have ALL of the answers. But only Scientific answers can have any possible value. THEREFORE, we will believe ONLY Scientists and those who support their work implicitly."

Never mind that Rudolf Steiner WAS a scientist of the material, measurable world. Never mind that he held a PhD in Natural Science. (Where do people think he got that from, a Crackerjacks box?) Never mind that most of what Rudolf Steiner gave insight into can be supported by rational, everyday thinking and that over the past century, much of his "theory" has come to be supported more and more by "mainstream" scientific research. Never mind that the insights that Rudolf Steiner provided in almost every field of endeavor have been able to be applied with beneficial and reproducable results. Farming, Medicine, Architecture, Physiological Research, Education, Curative Education have produced quantifiable results by putting his "theories" into practice. Music, Speech, Plastic Arts, Movement Arts, Drama and Theology are not generally accepted as "Scientific" endeavors, and yet, more and more mainstream Science thinkers are writing about and discussing the interconnectivity of Science with fields that used to belong exclusively to "Art" and/ or "Religion."

I started looking up "left handed" on the internet last night. There is a new book called "Right Hand, Left Hand" by Chris MacManus

http://www.righthandlefthand.com/

It looks very interesting. I started following links and got to the American Federation Teachers and there was not one article on lefthandedness (but plenty on their salaries). There are other websites that look very good. Of course, there are many "horror" stories of lefties and happened when teachers and parents tried to switch them. Of course, anyone who uses barbaric methods to force change in a child (for anything!) should be criticized and stopped. But, I am wondering if there could be a study of people who were switched as children who did NOT experience any bad reactions, learning difficulties or emotional traumas and who might say as teens or adults that they were happy that they were switched, if for no other reason than that it is a more convenient world for right-handers. It is easy to focus on the mistakes of any system of thought or action and to neglect the balancing experiences. Why not criticize Catholic schools for centuries of horror stories? How about fundamentalist Christian Schools? Boy, look at the websites and language there! I wouldn't want to be left handed in a Christian school, no way!

But I agree totally and whole heartedly that Catholics and Christian fundamentalists should have their own schools and not be in control of any Public school. And I agree also that no parent should put their child in a Waldorf School without having as much information as possible presented beforehand. After making the choice, I don't think that any parent should accept what a teacher says "on faith." There has to be constant communication. Waldorf teachers do have to study and keep abreast of current educational and developmental ideas and be prepared to factor them into the equation. Parents' concerns and criticisms should be taken seriously and addressed. But there also has to be some trust involved on the part of the parents that the school and its teachers are doing there very best to know and understand each child as an individual. A parent who constantly invades the classroom in a hostile way and becomes disruptive yet refuses to study the very available literature and attend the lectures and workshops (given by every Waldorf school I have ever known), this kind of parent does not belong in the school. Not because he or she is asking questions!

But because he or she is not IN TRUTH seeking answers. Waldorf schools do have a working theory, a recognizable form and methodology. An individual parent cannot mold a whole school to suit his or her personal preferences. There is much room for communication and compromise. There is in most cases a spirit of compassion and real concern for both the individual child and the family unit. But there is also a great deal of committment on the part of Waldorf Schools and Waldorf Teachers to the unique view of the world, the development of the human being and the Spirit of Anthroposophy that Waldorf Schools are but one expression of. This Spirit of Anthroposophy is NOT occult. It has taken (and continues to take) many things that have been specifically Occult throughout the history of civilization and brings them to light. It continually seeks to uncover the occult, or hidden secrets of human evolution and bring them out into the open. It rejects whole heartedly the dominant theory found throughout Western Civilization that the best knowledge and the best fruits of knowledge should belong to an exclusive, priveleged few. It seeks to donate freely, without proselytizing, the open secrets of the human being, the material world and the spiritual world to all who ask and are willing to listen with open ears, look with open eyes and feel with open hearts.

Without Openess of Heart, Mind and Experience no one can become a Waldorf Teacher. Anyone attempting to go through a teacher training program who expects to be "spoon fed" materials and methods is sure to come in for a real shock. You couldn't pre-package Waldorf Education if you wanted to! It has NO shelf life.

At the same time, it is hard to "sell" Waldorf Education to many parents because they expect "instant iced tea" answers to their questions - sound bytes that they can feel comfortable with. Politically correct phrases that sound really good at dinner parties. These kinds of inquiring parents usually do not choose to put their child in a Waldorf School. And if they do, they are often "disillusioned" with the experience because they have had so many of their preconceptions about their own child, education in general and even themselves strongly challenged.

A good Waldorf Teacher, like a good teacher in any kind of school welcomes a concerned, questioning parent because he or she knows that a good, intellectually and/ or artistically stimulating relationship between a teacher and a parent is vital to the process of uncovering the "riddle of the child" who they both love. On the other hand, a teacher's day is hectic and filled to the brim and there does not always seem to be enough time and space to explore all of each parent's questions in the depth that they deserve. That is why we often recommend books and are grateful when people put out good articles and literature. We give them to parents hoping that they will be able to see some of the answers for themselves. It is really too bad when there isn't enough follow-through, though and a parent feels slighted. This does happen. The best thing is a school where there are "experienced" parents who make themselves available to incoming families as mentors and thus assist the parents to understand the teachers better and vice versa. It is the hope of every developing school community that this will come about. But it can't be forced. It has to come from each community's own sense of itself. Some, I am sure are better at it than others.

At the end of the day, there will be some failures. There will also be successes. We may never even know which it is that we have brought about. Some things will only become apparent years down the road. Many things a teacher may do "right" he or she will never really know. Our children are not laboratory rats and we only have a one time shot, we can never duplicate a day or an hour or even a minute of our experience with them. The results of our "experiments" cannot be fed into a computer and statistically analyzed. Yes, there is more of Alchemy than "Science" at work in a Waldorf classroom, because we have to take the best that we have inside us of Science, Art and Religion and create each day something totally unique and extraordinary. We are Symphony Conductors. We do our best to study theory, to practice technique and to try to understand how to pull together an orchestra of disparate tonalities. But all that is just preparation, for the Song that arises from the souls of the children is more than we could ever have imagined before it is sung.

Speaking personally, if I didn't have some kind of "faith" in the existence of beings greater in wisdom than I am - some physical, some not - I could not feel adequate to such an undertaking. My faults and weaknesses are all too apparent. But as a Waldorf Teacher, I "believe" because of the experiences that I have had so far in this lifetime, that all of us are more than we "appear" and that there will be a myriad of miracles in which we do or say the right thing at the right time in spite of ourselves.

This is a prayer poem which I found a long time ago. It is not from Rudolf Steiner, but it still expresses so much of what I have felt every day in front of a room full of children.

I share it with you in good faith.
Christine

A Teacher's Prayer

"Lord, who am I to teach the way
to little children day by day,
so prone myself to go astray?

I teach them knowledge, but I know
how faint the flicker and how low
the candle of my knowledge glows.

I teach them power to will and do
but only now to learn anew,
my own great weakness through and through.

I teach them love for all mankind
and all God's creatures, but I find
my love comes lagging far behind.

Lord, if their guide I still must be,
O let the little children see
the teacher leaning hard on thee."

Author Unknown

...................................................................................................................................

From: holderlin66
Date: Wed Jan 28, 2004 12:31 pm
Subject: Martians and Herman Hess

--- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, golden3000997 wrote:

At the end of the day, there will be some failures. There will also be successes. We may never even know which it is that we have brought about. Some things will only become apparent years down the road. Many things a teacher may do "right" he or she will never really know. Our children are not laboratory rats and we only have a one time shot, we can never duplicate a day or an hour or even a minute of our experience with them. The results of our "experiments" cannot be fed into a computer and statistically analyzed. Yes, there is more of Alchemy than "Science" at work in a Waldorf classroom, because we have to take the best that we have inside us of Science, Art and Religion and create each day something totally unique and extraordinary. We are Symphony Conductors. We do our best to study theory, to practice technique and to try to understand how to pull together an orchestra of disparate tonalities. But all that is just preparation, for the Song that arises from the souls of the children is more than we could ever have imagined before it is sung.

Speaking personally, if I didn't have some kind of "faith" in the existence of beings greater in wisdom than I am - some physical, some not - I could not feel adequate to such an undertaking. My faults and weaknesses are all too apparent. But as a Waldorf Teacher, I "believe" because of the experiences that I have had so far in this lifetime, that all of us are more than we "appear" and that there will be a myriad of miracles in which we do or say the right thing at the right time in spite of ourselves.

This is a prayer poem which I found a long time ago. It is not from Rudolf Steiner, but it still expresses so much of what I have felt every day in front of a room full of children.

I share it with you in good faith.
Christine

A Teacher's Prayer

"Lord, who am I to teach the way
to little children day by day,
so prone myself to go astray?

I teach them knowledge, but I know
how faint the flicker and how low
the candle of my knowledge glows.

I teach them power to will and do
but only now to learn anew,
my own great weakness through and through.

I teach them love for all mankind
and all God's creatures, but I find
my love comes lagging far behind.

Lord, if their guide I still must be,
O let the little children see
the teacher leaning hard on thee."

Author Unknown

Bradford comments;

Dear Christine; Ah, Ah, this is what you get paid the big bucks for. This particular phrasing, really earned you your salary for the week. This is exactly the unique pearls of thought that are so lost and bent by a culture that doesn't grasp the heart and the mind.

Yes, there is more of Alchemy than "Science" at work in a Waldorf classroom, because we have to take the best that we have inside us of Science, Art and Religion and create each day something totally unique and extraordinary. We are Symphony Conductors. We do our best to study theory, to practice technique and to try to understand how to pull together an orchestra of disparate tonalities. But all that is just preparation, for the Song that arises from the souls of the children is more than we could ever have imagined before it is sung.

Further:

Yes, offering freely, the wide open vistas of science, art, religion and education in a startling new inflow, influx that saturates startles the dry skin and cracked veins and withered skin of science is part of the generosity an etheric influx of Spiritual Science.

Human growth and growing towards ones own higher developemnt presupposes that there is a higher development. It presupposes that some of what ancient thinkers as well as standard human development manuals tell us about growing towards wisdom, self-knowledge, heck Herman Hess...and yes I loved "The Glass Bead Game", Christine.

Albert Steffen and Herman Hesse were struggling with inside issues and outside issues. They knew each other and Steffen had certainly disappeared into the Glass Bead Game. In any case, the world is such an interesting place with the addition of Spiritual Science. It is even more interesting in that our natural scientific curiosity, I mean Sciences, any science, Stephen Hawking Science, or Einstein and Oppenheimer Science, is all the more interesting and sparks our curiosity all the more because of Spiritual Science. Where are the barriers to a Child's curiosity? Are the riddles of the universe connected intimately with human beings? Science thinks so and so does Spiritual Science. Physics has encountered this mystery and Spiritual Science has advanced deep into the territory.

You are right Christine. Most teachers have not had that natural curiosity drummed out of them. We look at the heart of the child, we measure the life biography and the riddles awaiting them, and we see the high ideal they bring with them and the long road ahead. The Child needs all the wonder in its gas tank it can get. Learning is clearly an alchemical process, not an input-output mechanism.

"Stranger in a Strange Land" was pointed out to me a few years back by JoAnn. It obviously eluded me during my common experiences of "Hair" and my own very specific development through the 60's and 70's. This was a good thing for me.

In the meantime I gradually made my way to Buddha and St. Francis and had the time to richly digest Steiner insights. So, there in the wonders of the Mars Sphere, Siddhartha and Herman Hess brought to an entire generation a review of Buddhism and the destiny of Buddha, all the way up to our friend Keanu Reeves. Where Buddhists, Dali Lama's, IMO, clumisly search for the reincarnated instant loop, incarnated leader. Here again, the Dali Lama and the East could stand some Spiritual Science and some higher common sense. I would say that for the Pope as well as Dali Lama's and this is sound common sense.

But adjusting my gaze to the fact that I saw, or we thought we saw, those few people Walk on the Moon, while Star Trek presented a Mars Culture in Warf and a Kubrick 2001 quest for the immortal soul of man, the thread in our Dylan Generation culture, could lead to the understanding of how Mars insights were sent back to us transformed in Ganhi/MLK Jr./Thoreau and hundreds of thousands of others currently running common sense in their soul life.

Troubadours and from the 12th and 13th century, icy Scholastic Nominalism and indeed, my sense that many have incarnated out of the French Revolution and Rousseau even from WWI have carried with them a mighty spiritual change in the Mars Forces. What are these Mars forces?

Ah- as one sees a sunset, A vowel that fully instinctively expresses, as getting into a warm tub of water... INNER VENUS

O - as when an Oh, a child gets hurt and we ring them round with a protective OH. Is an INNER JUPITER experience.

UH - as our elemental experience when someone comes from behind us, and puts a cold hand or ice water down our backs.

A or E - Is a particular Space defining gesture we make instinctively when in NEW YORK, we say Hey, Hey, Hey..which is the standard space defining and space antipathy VOWEL of MARS. WE MEET WITH AN INNER MARS EXPERIENCE.

Revolving through the constellations
VENUS intones the green wonder of beauty,
Mercury the golden joy of movement,
MARS is a red fire of action,
JUPITER a flame of enfolding love,
SATURN, a blue depth of reverence,
And the MOON, a motion come to violet stillness.
What a holy dance is this
As planets encircle the all-sustaining Sun!

Bradford concludes;

Instinct and the elemental aspect of the Vowels, reveal an inner planetary mood that is carried in the stream of how we unconsciously use langauge and the Vowels in our daily lives. Elemental Beings live in those imbued intonations. Especially when you hear raw exclamations and sudden, unrehersed blurts. Aspects of a Teacher's life, find that word tone and symphonic intonation, and the natural unfolding of the child, reveals these vowels as intrinsic and intimate to the expression of the soul life. Just details but containing a Rainbow of Newtonian mood. This is science, the same science Waldorf uses in water color painting.

Naturally, most of us who have given any significant thought to Spiritual Science, are not expecting to see our Dead in their migration path through the planets, to be romping around for the cameras currently on Mars. Some of you may want to read that sentence again. There is even a silly Carpenter movie called, "The Ghosts of Mars". But where Beethoven snatched his music; Where Shakespeare interviewed and saw his Characters in their Devachan destiny..or Rainer Marie Rilke, reaching for Angels, these are included in the vast treasure house of the research of Science and the HUman Being.

Feeling=Thinking=Willing...as they appear in the construction of the Speech Organism in the human being, means that Science of the universe and Man is an interconnected, layered, lazured, textured experience that passes through many layers of the soul life to bring conviction to the soul. Lips, Teeth, and Palate, are the actual elemental regions of life. OUr lips kiss and in soft whispers we express our love, in sharp dissonance we hiss our teethy antipathy and in grand Lord of the Rings, Gandalfian speech, akin to Home, we use the palate or Will forces.. Yes we break it down to the fact that the Heart and the lips is how we meet the world in education. But do we follow such an obvious cosmic plan as educators? We deny that the human being is this entire expression of Science. WE are the facts not what floundering Science imagines as a full or empty glass. Blessed are they that are not so stubborn as to need constant near death experiences or dysfunctional trailer park mood swings to feel and comprehend mysteries when they are openly explained to us warmly and openly.

So these layers of denial, dysfunction, prejudice and early childhood parental dogma fix, determine and lock down very rigid fields in the invisible world where Science cannot seem to hold itself up to the test of true Science. For indeed it has been proven that the experiment can not separated from the Scientist who experments and in particualr in measuring atoms in opposite regions where they should not appear but do.

But where does Pauline maturity come from? It is fine in the sandbox of atomic theory, but on a greater scaffolding and meaning is the layered maturity of the Soul and Spirit Being of humans. There lies the Science. There is where we come to the HOW - The WHY and the WHAT, let alone the WHEN...When Christ took hold of Matter through the vast scaffolding of wisdom in the human soul. Where does sandbox science stand? On a sandbox/Soapbox and imagines that the human being itself isn't the highest instrument of Science. That someone could have observed their will forces while using the left and right hand and honestly reviewed whether it drew on the lower organism of the will or the upper incarnational Seed incased in the Bone of the skull and known as the brain.

Such a book as "A WILL TO POWER" or determining if digestive problems would arise through drawing off the organism instead of the brain and if there was an alternative bio-energetic field shift to compensate for something that the soul brought with it as a fail safe..Could digestive problems arise from bad education? Could sclerosis, hardening of the bones and drying out of the etheric forces arise through too much abstract intellectual memorization?

Or, let us try to understand the whole Cyclops basis of OnE EYe and Odhin's ONE EYe and why he plucked out his One Eye and traded it, and the Christ statement, "lest thine eye be single". It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how the human being is dual, split, left side right side, two eyes, two ears, two legs, two nostrils, two halves of a brain are a series of checks and balances, that are specific to incarnating through the MOON region into the Cell splitting and Sex dividing region that the Earth and matter region are known for. Oops did no one tell science about the Reproductive portal and the Lunar mysteries? Makes ya wanna go out and howl.

I have traced this reproductive lunar split to not only the Axis of the Earth itself and how it sits in space in relation to the Sun but how the 46 degree angle to Vega and the North star reflect the 23 and 46 chromosome split of the cell division. 23 and the Tropic of Cancer and Capricorn and the Cell are linked clues. Cell division itself is a unique dual signature of incarnation of all species from plants, to humans.. THis biological divider is clearly placed within the context of understanding the Moon's influence on Females as well as how the endocrine system functions.

We come back to integration, penetration and each individual, not some edifice called SCIENCE standing over the human soul. The Human being is Science. He/She is a built in superstructure of Science of the Gods. I mentioned awhile back that Reincarnation was an Invention of the Gods to transplant Time Beings into Future forms. We go in and out of Time and are Transplanted, with our faculties into future Times, intact. Better than "Beam Me Aboard".

Christine was Right, as rain when she described the church of science replacing the dogmatic creed of faith. We know that a 500 year pivot has allowed Ahrimanic Science to replace Luciferic Faith in the Church and the same karmic errors that had to do with Luciferic belief in the dogmas of the Church, come right back to haunting the soul in the Ahrimanic dogmas of Science today. That is indeed how the karma of one calls forth the karma of the other. But until souls feel like they can journey on a true science adventure with mankind, part of their unholy war is aimed at subjective issues that really are projected onto everyone else.

I mean that everyone else, currently half those that oppose the Bush Administration as liars and can ask for real proof for their deceptions, have a healthy sense of Common Sense. That is a lot of people. IN the mix are those that fall into Right or Left Wing blind support. But as we go deeper and deeper into the objectivity of the soul, we come to core issues that only Spiritual Science and human development can answer. It is a form of holy Alchemy.

We learn, thank goodness, slowly. However we will fight to the death and send everyone into nuclear terror to convince ourselves of the authority of the new church of Science that replaced the Church dogmas. That is why the Bush Yellow Cake and 16 Words have awakened the world to a flaw in the psychology of American Goodness. It is a glaring flaw and the World outside of America has the good sense to see it. But that did not stop those who brought up children in this world to build a case for having their children killed in Iraq for the booty of liars. Let alone the thousands of Dead Iraqis. In the 20th century, about 100,000,000 people were brutally, barbacially murdered. For exactly what?

Down deep we trace these things back in Time and we connect to Beings, Michael-Christ-Ahriman our Angels..and you know what, we even connect spans of the history of the church and the tableau of humanity and it is correct to expand the search for WMD into the depths of the human soul.. For indeed the region where WMD lie are in the twisted foundations of the human soul. But those with Common Sense do not get into a John Ashcroft witchhunt or a Rush Limbaugh hatred group, that logically have to deny the very Christ and St. Paul event to exist. Liberal or Lefties or REAlists from ancient times, or anyone with common sense realize how difficult it is to penetrate layer upon layer of the human soul and thinking, feeling and willing forces to glimpse sound Truth. When we penetrate these areas we discover vast stockpiles of WMD of our own making.

Bradford

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