Novalis


From: dottie zold
Date: Sun Mar 14, 2004 10:04 am
Subject: Novalis

Hi Everyone,

In reading the book I just aquired from the Steiner bookstore I found such beautiful poems by Novalis. I also found some thoughts that I find to be the way it seems we also come to the Sophia path that I wanted to share.

How is Maria Seen? page23 The Sense for Heaven

Kant's critical theory of knowledge was an inspiration and a challenge to Novalis. In the all important year 1797, however, Novalis' epistomological view showed developements which put it in conscious contradiction too key elements of Kant's view. These differences stem mainly from Novalis' growing belief in, and experience with, the sense for the invisible world within us; "Concept of 'sense organ. According to Kant, pure mathematics and pure science relate themselves to the forms of the outer sense perceptible. What science, then, relates itself to the forms of the inner sense pereceptible? Is there in addition, cognition 'beyond the sense perceptible'? Is there still another way open for going out of oneself and for reaching other beings, or for being affected by them? (II,390) The many quotes in this paper about the sense for the invisible show that Novalis' answer is 'yes'. And since Novalis did 'reach other beings', this 'cognition beyond the sense perceptible' can not be merely subjective.

Kant believed in an objective real world outside himself, the world of the 'things in themselves'; but he believed them to be inaccessible to human knowledge. Hans-Joachim Maehl quotes Kant (II,336), that his theoretical knowledge of reason ..."namely, approaches only 'appearance', and, on the other hand, leaves the thing in itself alone as something real in itself, it is true, but 'unknown to us." The following lines from Novalis show his belief that moral sense can indeed penetrate into the world of being, into the world of things-in-themselves: "God only becomes perceptible to us through the moral sense organ; the moral sense is the sense for Being, without 'outer stimulus...,the sense for the thing in itself, the true divination sense, "divining" in the sense of perceiving, something without an outer cause or contact." This issue is very important, because upon it hinges the nature and accessibility of Maria: does she have only a subjective reality, or is she, in spite of her being a part of ourselves ("the heavenly mother dwells in each of us" (I,312), real and knowable in her own right? For Novalis, Maria is a higher being connected to his own soul; she has an uplifting power, a power to transform his soul from above; she is an eternal feminine principle who leads him onward. No mirror image of his self could have this power.

The inner walls that Kant built around us could not hold Novalis. The following words of Oskar Walzel do not apply to Novalis. The Romantics "desire to grasp the ultimate ground out of which the world has grown, at first runs into the solid walls with which Kant had drawn the limits of man's ability to know."

D: It's funny reading things that feel like home to me. Maybe it is the connection from heart to heart that have found Sophia that allows one to feel a brotherly connection to such a one as Novalis. And what a connection to Dr. Steiner is what I kept getting throughout this whole piece. One easily sees the direct correlation to the thinking of Goethe, Novalis and Dr. Steiner.

What is interesting is that this leads me to thoughts on the critics list about Waldorf schools. In order to share with the world their bad experiences of a school that Dr. Steiner founded a hundred years ago they go to demonizing the man himself. They try to show this is a cult for no other reason than it adds to their case in court. It's one thing to make clear the idea that this Waldorf has religious overtones and that is all good but to then go and create malicious stories about Dr. Steiner shows how weak their case must be. If it is about church and state then make it so but one doesn't need to create lies about cult like activities to scare people. Your argument should stand without that. If it doesn't than you must not have a good case.

Even in that we agree there were and are things that need to change in different schools and so forth does not give them a pass for the libelous way they have handled themselves in regards to this great thinker of mankind. It really gets down to once again being driven by Dan Dugan and his personal world view of a humanist. If it did not then he and they wouldn't have need to try and drag Dr. Steiners name down to the pits of hell. Seperation of church and state does not give them free reign to malign another mans work.

Dottie

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From: Tarjei Straume
Date: Sun Mar 14, 2004 10:11 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Novalis

Thank you for your post about Novalis, Dottie. I seem to recall him being a reincarnation of John the Evangelist (Lazarus-John) or Leonardo da Vinci or both.

Tarjei

At 19:04 14.03.2004, Dottie wrote:

Hi Everyone,

In reading the book I just aquired from the Steiner bookstore I found such beautiful poems by Novalis. I also found some thoughts that I find to be the way it seems we also come to the Sophia path that I wanted to share.

...................................................................................................................................

From: dottie zold
Date: Sun Mar 14, 2004 10:19 am
Subject: Re: Novalis

Tarjei:

Thank you for your post about Novalis, Dottie. I seem to recall him being a reincarnation of John the Evangelist (Lazarus-John) or Leonardo da Vinci or both.

Hey Tarjei,

What just came to mind when I went back to writing was the idea of an Abraham Lincoln connection to Novalis. I am not normally one to make such remarks as to biographies other than to 'react' to them but suddenly I just got a full picture of sorts within my heart. Who knows huh?

Good Sunday,

Dottie

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From: VALENTINA BRUNETTI
Date: Sun Mar 14, 2004 10:33 am
Subject: R: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Novalis

Hi Tarjej, Hi dottie,

Steiner said. in various diffrente lectures including the Gospel of St Matthew, that he was John the Baptist and, in XV-XVI cent. the painter Raffaello Sanzio.

(Leonardo....it's a very different matter!)

A.

----- Original Message -----
From: Tarjei Straume
Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 7:11 PM
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Novalis

Thank you for your post about Novalis, Dottie. I seem to recall him being a reincarnation of John the Evangelist (Lazarus-John) or Leonardo da Vinci or both.

Tarjei

At 19:04 14.03.2004, Dottie wrote:

Hi Everyone,

In reading the book I just aquired from the Steiner bookstore I found such beautiful poems by Novalis. I also found some thoughts that I find to be the way it seems we also come to the Sophia path that I wanted to share.

...................................................................................................................................

From: dottie zold
Date: Sun Mar 14, 2004 10:23 am
Subject: Re: Novalis

The inner walls that Kant built around us could not hold Novalis. The following words of Oskar Walzel do not apply to Novalis. The Romantics "desire to grasp the ultimate ground out of which the world has grown, at first runs into the solid walls with which Kant had drawn the limits of man's ability to know."

I didn't finish the paragraph and I thought it relevant so here it is:

"...They experience that their hot longing for the eternal and the endless must remain longing. Out of this disappointment grows the teaching of Romantic irony."

Also to Danny, I had no idea that this Miss Sophie von Khun was the fiance to a young Msg. Novalis. Well, whadaya say? Whew.

Love,
d

p.s. the book by the way is written by Mr. William Lindeman and it is called The Sense for Heaven.

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From: VALENTINA BRUNETTI
Date: Sun Mar 14, 2004 10:50 am
Subject: R: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Novalis

Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 7:33 PM
Subject: R: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Novalis

Hi Tarjej, Hi dottie,

Steiner said. in various diffrente lectures including the Gospel of St Matthew, that he was John the Baptist and, in XV-XVI cent. the painter Raffaello Sanzio.

(Leonardo....it's a very different matter!)

A.

Andrea adds,

Hi folks

I'm no "mistery writer".

So, I've just finished reading an article about the "Last Supper" in an Italian anthro-magazine in which there is claimed that, following mainly some Rittelmayer's statements , that there is a development of the same Individuality inside the Personalities of Judas, St Augustin, and ...Leonardo. The composition itself of the "Last Supper" should be a further evidence of that claim that. in itself, is based mainly on RS's communications to FR. I'm sorry that I cannot tell more about it: I have not the due time to translate the article (toddlers are running!)

A.

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From: at
Date: Sun Mar 14, 2004 10:38 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Novalis

Raphael, not Leonardo. It's in the book Dottie is reading (Eternal Individuality by Prokofieff).

Daniel

----- Original Message -----
From: Tarjei Straume
Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 1:11 PM
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Novalis

Thank you for your post about Novalis, Dottie. I seem to recall him being a reincarnation of John the Evangelist (Lazarus-John) or Leonardo da Vinci or both.

Tarjei

At 19:04 14.03.2004, Dottie wrote:

Hi Everyone,

In reading the book I just aquired from the Steiner bookstore I found such beautiful poems by Novalis. I also found some thoughts that I find to be the way it seems we also come to the Sophia path that I wanted to share.

...................................................................................................................................

From: Tarjei Straume
Date: Sun Mar 14, 2004 10:40 am
Subject: Re: R: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Novalis

I had forgotten the details here and got Raphael mixed up with Leonardo, and John the Baptist with John the Evangelist, so I did some checking and found a little quote:

"Occult investigation finds that in Elijah, in John the Baptist, in Raphael, in Novalis, the same Individuality lived and worked. In Raphael there is a new resurrection of the work of John the Baptist, and it may indeed be said: Raphael himself is able to ensure that his work will not perish when his paintings are no longer to be seen on the walls, just as he was able to prevent other achievements from passing away. Just as he provided for the revival, in a new form, of what it had once been his mission to proclaim, so he will always provide, in incarnations yet to come. Thus does the Individuality bear through eternity what has once been accomplished."

- Earthly and Cosmic Man, The Idea of Reincarnation and its Introduction Into Western Culture, The Geralding of Christianity, Berlin, GA 133

http://wn.elib.com/Steiner/Lectures/Places/Berlin/19120502p01.html

Tarjei

At 19:33 14.03.2004, Andrea wrote:

Hi Tarjej, Hi dottie,

Steiner said. in various diffrente lectures including the Gospel of St Matthew, that he was John the Baptist and, in XV-XVI cent. the painter Raffaello Sanzio.

(Leonardo....it's a very different matter!)

...................................................................................................................................

From: dottie zold
Date: Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:03 am
Subject: Re: R: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Novalis

Andrea:

(Leonardo....it's a very different matter!)

Hi Andrea,

Meaning what exactly? :)

Dottie

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From: dottie zold
Date: Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:04 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Novalis

Daniel:

Raphael, not Leonardo. It's in the book Dottie is reading (Eternal Individuality by Prokofieff).

Hey Daniel,

I am not reading this particular book. Do you reccomend it for one looking towards a greater Sophia understanding?

Good Sunday,
Dottie

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From: VALENTINA BRUNETTI
Date: Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:22 am
Subject: R: R: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Novalis

----- Original >
To: Re: R: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Novalis

Andrea:

(Leonardo....it's a very different matter!)

Hi Andrea,

Meaning what exactly? :)

Dottie

Hi Dottie!

I'm no "mistery writer".

So, I've just finished reading an article about the "Last Supper" in an Italian anthro-magazine in which there is claimed that, following mainly some Rittelmayer's statements , that there is a development of the same Individuality inside the Personalities of Judas, St Augustin, and ...Leonardo. The composition itself of the "Last Supper" should be a further evidence of that claim that. in itself, is based mainly on RS's communications to FR. I'm sorry that I cannot tell more about it: I have not the due time to translate the article (toddlers are running!)

A.

...................................................................................................................................

From: dottie zold
Date: Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:11 am
Subject: Re: R: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Novalis

Andrea:

I'm no "mistery writer".

So, I've just finished reading an article about the "Last Supper" in an Italian anthro-magazine in which there is claimed that, following mainly some Rittelmayer's statements , that there is a development of the same Individuality inside the Personalities of Judas, St Augustin, and ...Leonardo. The composition itself of the "Last Supper" should be a further evidence of that claim that. in itself, is based mainly on RS's communications to FR. I'm sorry that I cannot tell more about it: I have not the due time to translate the article (toddlers are running!)

A.

Oh my goodeness! Are you possibly saying something about Da Vinci as in Dr. Steiners personality? If you are then it really is amazing how we are all really tied in together. The workings of the spirit never ever cease to amaze me.

How do we all come to a thing? How is it that our lives really bear out the fruit from the spiritual worlds and slowly make themselves appear before our very minds today? Isn't it just absolutely stunning how we are all connected and how we all find ourselves in the very place we are meant to be: Steiner students? Unbelievable!

Oh what a beautiful Sunday. Today is the day of the man who gave birth to me. And just as when it is my mothers birth day, I find myself surrounded by lots of love and beauty, so I am today with my wonderful Fathers birth day. I so love him. Happy happy happy is the day a child is born.

Good Good Sunday,

Dottie

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From: dottie zold
Date: Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:15 am
Subject: Re: R: R: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Novalis

Andrea:

The composition itself of the "Last Supper" should be a further evidence of that claim that. in itself, is based mainly on RS's communications to FR. I'm sorry that I cannot tell more about it: I have not the due time to translate the article (toddlers are running!)

Okay, I get you are no mystery writer, so where does Dr. Steiner speak on this Da Vinci gentleman?

And yesterday I had a Mona Lisa smile moment. What he captured was a moment when someone has a sublime understanding. The smile, the upturn in the lips without a full smile is exactly the same as in the picture. Next time you have one of these moments notice how your face feels around the lips and the eyes. You shall see/feel what it is; the balance of the mystery having been noticed by you in that particular mille second.

Dottie

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From: VALENTINA BRUNETTI
Date: Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:34 am
Subject: R: R: R: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Novalis

There is a lecture given in Berlin on Feb 1913 13 (GA 62) . I got the Italian translation , it is entitled as "Leonardo's Spiritual Greatness at the Beginning of modern Ages"

Don't know if there is some English transl. on the web.

A.

Andrea:

The composition itself of the "Last Supper" should be a further evidence of that claim that. in itself, is based mainly on RS's communications to FR. I'm sorry that I cannot tell more about it: I have not the due time to translate the article (toddlers are running!)

Okay, I get you are no mystery writer, so where does Dr. Steiner speak on this Da Vinci gentleman?

And yesterday I had a Mona Lisa smile moment. What he captured was a moment when someone has a sublime understanding. The smile, the upturn in the lips without a full smile is exactly the same as in the picture. Next time you have one of these moments notice how your face feels around the lips and the eyes. You shall see/feel what it is; the balance of the mystery having been noticed by you in that particular mille second.

Dottie

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From: danifyou
Date: Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:31 am
Subject: Rép. : [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Novalis

----Message original -----
De : dottie zold

The inner walls that Kant built around us could not hold Novalis. The following words of Oskar Walzel do not apply to Novalis. The Romantics "desire to grasp the ultimate ground out of which the world has grown, at first runs into the solid walls with which Kant had drawn the limits of man's ability to know."

I didn't finish the paragraph and I thought it relevant so here it is:

"...They experience that their hot longing for the eternal and the endless must remain longing. Out of this disappointment grows the teaching of Romantic irony."

Also to Danny, I had no idea that this Miss Sophie von Khun was the fiance to a young Msg. Novalis. Well, whadaya say? Whew.

Hi Dottie ;)

I say: lo! - Long the Longing
Makes seem everything Face
Now a Mean(-)time --> towards the Spring
Spiritual Eternal Purely-'Sophic-Ourselves'!

Sprout Seeds cast many they shall reap
Soon - take hold of the Etheric;
Out of White Magic('Love Ideal')
Acquire-we Star(s) Velocity-Stir
Vehicule-'Hover' - Reach into Air
Like Cupid for all that
Has been unchartered
- Up to now - only little done -
Yet - also much "Rehearsals"!...
But the Increase does come;
All Good Willed Men shall be Quickened
And be able to use Freya's Dress-'Hawk'!

And for you Dottie a Special:
Friend with the 2 Jesus Boys
In Olga's Gallery Collection!

http://www.abcgallery.com/R/raphael/raphael90.html

Love,
d

p.s. the book by the way is written by Mr. William Lindeman and it is called The Sense for Heaven.

Interesting; I'll take a look then!

Good Philosophical Stuff - Thanks!

Short - as I must go now,
Dan

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From: at
Date: Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:50 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Novalis

I've done no more than skim a few passages on occasion. But it can do no harm! You are by now familiar with Prokofieff's writing, and the subject is definitely related.

Daniel

----- Original Message -----
From: dottie zold
Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Novalis

Daniel:

Raphael, not Leonardo. It's in the book Dottie is reading (Eternal Individuality by Prokofieff).

Hey Daniel,

I am not reading this particular book. Do you reccomend it for one looking towards a greater Sophia understanding?

Good Sunday,
Dottie

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From: Detlef Hardorp
Date: Sun Mar 14, 2004 1:53 pm
Subject: Re: R: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Novalis

Tarjei wrote:

Thank you for your post about Novalis, Dottie. I seem to recall him being a reincarnation of ...

Dear Tarjei,

you have already been corrected concerning the personalities involved. May I chide you for something else? That is the basic misunderstanding behind a statement like the above. Because neither Raphael nor Leornado nor anyone else reincarnated. They died. Personalities don't reincarnate! They have only one life to live. Watch how Steiner phrases it:

"Occult investigation finds that in Elijah, in John the Baptist, in Raphael, in Novalis, the same Individuality lived and worked. "

The Individuality is not to be identified with the personality!

You may think I'm nitpicking. But for me this is an important spiritual distinction. You are certainly not the only one to disregard it through at least sloppy phrasing. But it always makes me cringe. Beyond the fact that I don't think it appropriate to talk about things like this in the same manner as we talk about changing our brand of toothpaste. I would welcome a little more respect towards these issues, which, after all, Steiner only spoke of very late in his life - and that was surely not because he lacked the knowledge to do so previously.

Detlef Hardorp

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From: Detlef Hardorp
Date: Sun Mar 14, 2004 2:00 pm
Subject: Re: R: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Novalis

Post Script: I wrote

I would welcome a little more respect towards these issues, which, after all, Steiner only spoke of very late in his life - and that was surely not because he lacked the knowledge to do so previously.

Of course the Novalis example is the exception that "proves" the rule - it is one of the few reincarnation cycles he spoke about explicitly already during the time of the mystery dramas, with the lecture cycles on karmic relationships, which marks an explosion in this subject, coming very late.

Detlef

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From: dottie zold
Date: Sun Mar 14, 2004 2:03 pm
Subject: Re: R: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Novalis

Detlef:

Because neither Raphael nor Leornado nor anyone else reincarnated. They died. Personalities don't reincarnate! They have only one life to live. Watch how Steiner phrases it:

Dr. Steiner:

"Occult investigation finds that in Elijah, in John the Baptist, in Raphael, in Novalis, the same Individuality lived and worked. "

Dear Detlef,

Thank you for taking the time for the point above. I also found this yesterday in From Jesus to Christ and it caught my attention and now I have a clearer understanding to the question it posed to me.

A friend of mine who I consider a well knowledgable man on spirit revelations confused me one day when he said 'what do you mean he reincarnated?' All this time I had been wondering what he meant when obviously we incarnate again but I had felt unconfidant to ask him the question. So, thank you.

Dottie

p.s. I also came across a comment by an artist in a book about spending the years with Dr. Steiner. In here he speaks of the point that Dr. Steiner took a long time to be able to name a book or lecture after Christ. He had to weight this thought in his mind for quite a while before he allowed himself to speak it. It calls to mind your thought on the reverence of a thing.

I am wondering if you have time to share if you speak or guide groups of students in Anthroposophy?

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From: dottie zold
Date: Sun Mar 14, 2004 2:16 pm
Subject: Re: Rép. : [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Novalis

Danny:

And for you Dottie a Special:
Friend with the 2 Jesus Boys
In Olga's Gallery Collection!

http://www.abcgallery.com/R/raphael/raphael90.html

Danny, who is the third. I just saw this picture last night I believe and I can not read German but it seems to me that it does not mention the third.

Also in Fra Angelics 'Noli me tanger :( I am wondering how you interpret the painting. I see wheat in the background and Jesus seems to have a 'reaper' don't really know what they are called:) at this moment in time. I am finding it is more than just the words 'don't touch me I have not risen to my Father'. Something else is in there but what? What else is this moment trying to say? As well as the Last Supper. What else is this scene trying to tell us besides what we normally come to. Something is wanting to come forward what is it?

Good Sunday,
Dottie

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From: golden3000997
Date: Sun Mar 14, 2004 2:34 pm
Subject: Re: Rép. : [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Novalis

Hi Dottie!

The third boy (the one to our left of Mary) is the young John, later to be the Baptist (Jesus' cousin) you can usually tell, because in most paintings he is wearing an animal skin and has a "staff" like the one in the picture (even though etherial).

Remember, when Magdalene first saw the Risen Christ, she thought he was the gardener.

: ) Christine

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From: Tarjei Straume
Date: Sun Mar 14, 2004 2:35 pm
Subject: Re: R: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Novalis

At 22:53 14.03.2004, Detlef wrote:

You may think I'm nitpicking. But for me this is an important spiritual distinction. You are certainly not the only one to disregard it through at least sloppy phrasing. But it always makes me cringe. Beyond the fact that I don't think it appropriate to talk about things like this in the same manner as we talk about changing our brand of toothpaste. I would welcome a little more respect towards these issues, which, after all, Steiner only spoke of very late in his life - and that was surely not because he lacked the knowledge to do so previously.

I do appreciate your pointing out the difference between the personalities (which are temporary, belonging to one incarnation only) and the individualities the entelechies, that evolve through cycles of birth and death. For the record: I don't intend any disrespect when saying that someone was the reincarnation of someone else, and I would never say that a personality reincarnates. I believe that's part of the reason why we grieve so much when someone dies, regardless of our spiritual awareness: We miss the personality, which is gone forever.

Your comparison to changing our brand of toothpaste reminds me of certain trends in New Age that take a superficial and materialistic approach to reincarnation by giving the impression that it's a matter of jumping in and out of bodies, skipping the long journey through the Kamaloka and Devachan and the Zodiac (under Lucifer's guidance) altogether. Some of the most amoral materialists and criminals spend an extremely short time between incarnations because they're blind to everything on the other side.

The Scientologists, among others, give the impression that they're jumping in and out of bodies.

Incidentally, I tried to approach this subject in November with the thread "Popular Spirituality":

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anthroposophy_tomorrow/message/175

Cheers,

Tarjei
http://uncletaz.com/

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From: holderlin66
Date: Sun Mar 14, 2004 2:35 pm
Subject: Novalis

Detlef Hardorp wrote

you have already been corrected concerning the personalities involved. May I chide you for something else? That is the basic misunderstanding behind a statement like the above. Because neither Raphael nor Leornado nor anyone else reincarnated. They died. Personalities don't reincarnate! They have only one life to live. Watch how Steiner phrases it:

"Occult investigation finds that in Elijah, in John the Baptist, in Raphael, in Novalis, the same Individuality lived and worked. "

The Individuality is not to be identified with the personality!

You may think I'm nitpicking. But for me this is an important spiritual distinction. You are certainly not the only one to disregard it through at least sloppy phrasing. But it always makes me cringe. Beyond the fact that I don't think it appropriate to talk about things like this in the same manner as we talk about changing our brand of toothpaste. I would welcome a little more respect towards these issues, which, after all, Steiner only spoke of very late in his life - and that was surely not because he lacked the knowledge to do so previously.

Detlef Hardorp

Bradford comments;

Each incarnation is a virgin Personality. Steiner admonished us to treat each human as a hidden 'enigma' based on Reincarnation. Indeed the kids get a little rowdy sometimes, once they start fumbling around in the box of matches, however the discipline to study what was given in the Karma Lectures, and merely let them saturate the soul can begin at least a reconstruction of failed historical impulses.

Now, to set the record straight here. Elijah does get very, very angry and slaughters about 400 priests, so it was rumored. Why? Well Elijah is our incredible Forerunner of Anthroposophy and Spiritual Science aka John the Baptist. The Law of if you live by the sword you shall die by the sword comes home to John the Baptist, when his head is severed and it becomes for us a Midsummer festival. Ancient race forming forces of the Hebrews shall decrease while the Christ Sun shall increase.

Having said the magic word, John the Baptist, we also have the one clear cut indication of reincarnation. "Who is John the Baptist, some say he is Elijah"...now we see how easy it is to skip over and be selective and use selective intelligence on what Christ was saying. How easy it is to avoid the stunning work of Christ in the I AM incarnation placement service. But it gets better!

As students of the Michael School, if you are merely walking with a blindfold on, the knowledge that Raphael who paints the incredible "School of Athens" and Novalis the quiet poet who breaks through the Stars into Sophia country were one and same individual; and if you look very closely you can see the relation between Goethe and Novalis as even more powerful than the relation between Goethe and Schiller.

Christic history and Christic art follows trails that are still unwritten and stunning to explore. For my money, Time has shown that Novalis was the key figure and the first forerunner of Spiritual Science and this Steiner agrees with. What is lacking, is sheer wonder at the depth of what is being discussed here and comparing it to your normal everyday laundry list. I'm not afraid of the depth using Steiner as my measurement.

John the Baptist, fellow Essene, and part of the Angelic welcoming assembly, played with Jesus, was hugged and had his diapers changed by Mary the mother of Jesus..His Angel stirred in Elizabeth's womb. Raphael later comes to paint the soul impression he had absorbed from Mary and Elizabeth and it stands as historical. Raphael goes on to paint the union of Platonism and Pauline/Aristotleism in his remarkable School of Athens and Steiner, the Christic Historian, picks all this up. Steiner the Christic Historian. Steiner the Christic Historian..do you not hear the title of a great work?

When packing for an outing to Sophia country, you need to take maps and tales with you. There are many obscure and lost insights that intelligence today fails at understanding or grasping how to really go behind the stars.

You may say, pooh, pooh, Imagination is out of my league, I cannot even deal with reality. Spiritual Science gives you the tools and you throw them in the waste basket? Did you ever imagine that it could really be fun, when you put the insights together and see how they actually tick? That the intellect is dry and easy, but Imagination is powerful and precise and leads behind the stars.

You need to pack for your excursion to Sophia country, Howard Pyle and his "Garden Behind the Moon" as well as He who sat at the feet of Mary the mother of Jesus, John the Baptist, aka, Novalis and his Blue Flower and his entire experience of Hymns to the Night. If you cannot stand stunned that John the Baptist is the very author Novalis...you are simply a dried prune. Proof of stunning reality is the whole joy of the adventure of Spiritual Science. Not using the tools of JOY for awakening your heart is, well, shrinking, shrinking, shrinking.

Willi Sucher had wonderful silver and curly, curly, ringlets of silver hair. Even this is an observation of forces in the incarnation that reveal a cosmic background. Willi Sucher was a seeker of Sophia and helped create Astrosophy. I met him and it still sticks in my minds eye the wonderful man. He knew of Sophia. So Sophia is a Star Wisdom that comes down to plants, seasons, time of birth, and what forces are given to each soul in their etheric and astral combinations. How to insert the I Am, and where to insert the I Am into family, heredity or cloning.

In Steiner's research on how in the sixth epoch a vast change in the moral and etheric forces will happen should shock us. Because we can see and are living through the current emancipation of surgically chopping out etheric design codes into potential cloning. This all has to do with which direction the hardening of the etheric goes. Beastward or Christward... and humans are the most deadly monsters on the planet.

It should concern us, it should make us still inside and catch our breath. We are looking at how the fifth epoch is performing a robbery of human etheric forces and Steiner showed how these forces would and are currently becoming the image of our incarnations moral unfolding. They will no longer be connected to Race. We each will be our own moral force from what we have made of ourselves in past incarnations. Sophia will be working directly with us. Do we not need to find a path to her door? We do. Do we need to think, think and think again what these tiny indications that Steiner gives imply? We do.

George McDonald, Curdie and Sophia

Curdie's Mission is a mission of discernment and refinement. Christed Etheric Moral forces are in the Fire Place of Burning Roses. It is what we experience after death to enter heaven. We feel the burning away of desires, cravings and earthly hungers that no longer suit the higher levels of consciousness.

Curdie sticks his hand into the Devachan fire and we understand, or should understand, few understand, that we are dealing with a moral fire. I have many, many times experienced with certain people an intense heat, that came from their hands, and if you hugged them, you could feel this enveloping fire, and it wasn't lust or anything to do with lust, it was a bathing fire, that reached a very high pitch. I would comment on the observation and it could easily be felt but we fail to absorb what this fire is. That is why we fail to understand the difference between radioactive burning through and Moral Etheric Forces of the Rose leading us to the Devachan and higher concepts of Science. It is very simple really, it is just you don't know what to observe or to connect to what. If you have begun the process of innwardly connecting the dots, the world is AWESOME.

http://www.ibiblio.org/gutenberg/etext96/prcur10.txt

"...he reached the door of the princess's workroom, and knocked.

'Come in,' said the voice of the princess.

Curdie opened the door - but, to his astonishment, saw no room there. Could he have opened a wrong door? There was the great sky, and the stars, and beneath he could see nothing only darkness! But what was that in the sky, straight in front of him? A great wheel of fire, turning and turning, and flashing out blue lights!

'Come in, Curdie,' said the voice again.

'I would at once, ma'am,' said Curdie, 'if I were sure I was standing at your door.'

'Why should you doubt it, Curdie?'

'Because I see neither walls nor floor, only darkness and the great sky.'
'That is all right, Curdie. Come in.'

Curdie stepped forward at once. He was indeed, for the very crumb of a moment, tempted to feel before him with his foot; but he saw that would be to distrust the princess, and a greater rudeness he could not offer her. So he stepped straight in - I will not say without a little tremble at the thought of finding no floor beneath his foot. But that which had need of the floor found it, and his foot was satisfied.

 

"No sooner was he in than he saw that the great revolving wheel in the sky was the princess's spinning wheel, near the other end of the room, turning very fast. He could see no sky or stars any more, but the wheel was flashing out blue - oh, such lovely sky-blue light! - and behind it of course sat the princess, but whether an old woman as thin as a skeleton leaf, or a glorious lady as young as perfection, he could not tell for the turning and flashing of the wheel.

'Listen to the wheel,' said the voice which had already grown dear to Curdie: its very tone was precious like a jewel, not as a jewel, for no jewel could compare with it in preciousness.

And Curdie listened and listened.

Now you are listening, with Curdie, to "The Music of the Spheres". Now we are listening to what Kepler saw in the Geometry of the planets, in the music of matter. But how would you even know to go to Kepler and to Tycho De Brahe in history and find out that here again we find Sophia... there is also a Great german Mystic who speaks directly of Sophia... Jakob Boehme (Böhme, Behm) (1575-1624). If you really want to know about Sophia you will do just as Danny has said. You will look up the Egyptian Goddess NUT. Her body is the entire arch of the Heavens and we feed off her lunar breasts, which connects directly to all that you should scramble to understand about Diana of Ephesus.

In Tycho, like Novalis, we are dealing with Tycho as the strange woman named Herzaloyde, mother of Parsifal. If you cannot be dumb founded and warmly shocked by reality how will you ever uncover the Curdie forces of discernment that George MacDonald brought in for us? What about Kepler? We know he was incarnated in Egypt and obviously understood a great deal about NUT..he carried over his Egyptian Initation into his Kepler incarnation. What are we scared of, knowing the trails and back tracks that will get us on the right road, means we have to learn to put current education in its deserved place. It means we have to learn how to self correct and listen with intense interest to thousands and thousands of seemingly unimportant events.

'What is it saying?' asked the voice.

'It is singing,' answered Curdie.

'What is it singing?'

Curdie tried to make out, but thought he could not; for no sooner had he got hold of something than it vanished again.

Yet he listened, and listened, entranced with delight.

'Thank you, Curdie, said the voice.

'Ma'am,' said Curdie, 'I did try hard for a while, but I could not make anything of it.'

'Oh yes, you did, and you have been telling it to me! Shall I tell you again what I told my wheel, and my wheel told you, and you have just told me without knowing it?'

'Please, ma'am.'

Then the lady began to sing, and her wheel spun an accompaniment to her song, and the music of the wheel was like the music of an Aeolian harp blown upon by the wind that bloweth where it listeth. Oh, the sweet sounds of that spinning wheel! Now they were gold, now silver, now grass, now palm trees, now ancient cities, now rubies, now mountain brooks, now peacock's feathers, now clouds, now snowdrops, and now mid-sea islands. But for the voice that sang through it all, about that I have no words to tell. It would make you weep if I were able to tell you what that was like, it was so beautiful and true and lovely. But this is something like the words of its song:

The stars are spinning their threads, And the clouds are the dust that flies, And the suns are weaving them up For the time when the sleepers shall rise.

The ocean in music rolls, And gems are turning to eyes, And the trees are gathering souls For the day when the sleepers shall rise.

The weepers are learning to smile, And laughter to glean the sighs; Burn and bury the care and guile, For the day when the sleepers shall rise.

oh, the dews and the moths and the daisy red, The larks and the glimmers and flows! The lilies and sparrows and daily bread, And the something that nobody knows!

The princess stopped, her wheel stopped, and she laughed. And her laugh was sweeter than song and wheel; sweeter than running brook and silver bell; sweeter than joy itself, for the heart of the laugh was love.

'Come now, Curdie, to this side of my wheel, and you will find me,' she said; and her laugh seemed sounding on still in the words, as if they were made of breath that had laughed.

Curdie obeyed, and passed the wheel, and there she stood to receive him! - fairer than when he saw her last, a little younger still, and dressed not in green and emeralds, but in pale blue, with a coronet of silver set with pearls, and slippers covered with opals that gleamed every colour of the rainbow. It was some time before Curdie could take his eyes from the marvel of her loveliness. Fearing at last that he was rude, he turned them away; and, behold, he was in a room that was for beauty marvellous! The lofty ceiling was all a golden vine, Whose great clusters of carbuncles, rubies, and chrysoberyls hung down like the bosses of groined arches, and in its centre hung the most glorious lamp that human eyes ever saw - the Silver Moon itself, a globe of silver, as it seemed, with a heart of light so wondrous potent that it rendered the mass translucent, and altogether radiant.

The room was so large that, looking back, he could scarcely see the end at which he entered; but the other was only a few yards from him - and there he saw another wonder: on a huge hearth a great fire was burning, and the fire was a huge heap of roses, and yet it was fire. The smell of the roses filled the air, and the heat of the flames of them glowed upon his face. He turned an inquiring look upon the lady, and saw that she was now seated in an ancient chair, the legs of which were crusted with gems, but the upper part like a nest of daisies and moss and green grass."

Bradford

...................................................................................................................................

From: Tarjei Straume
Date: Sun Mar 14, 2004 3:00 pm
Subject: Mona Lisa (was: Novalis)

At 20:15 14.03.2004, Dottie wrote:

And yesterday I had a Mona Lisa smile moment.

Wow. Reminds me of that wonderful song with Nat King Cole:

Mona Lisa, Mona Lisa
Men have named you

You're so like the lady
With the mystic smile

Is it only cause you're lonely
They have blamed you

For that Mona Lisa
Strangeness in your smile

Do you smile to tempt a lover, Mona Lisa
Or is this your way to hide a broken heart?

Many dreams
Have been brought
To your doorstep...

They just lie there...
And they die there...

Are you warm,
Are you real,
Mona Lisa?

Or just a cold and lonely,
Lovely work of art?

Mona Lisa, Mona Lisa
Men have named you

You're so like the lady
With the mystic smile

Is it only cause you're lonely
They have blamed you

For that Mona Lisa
Strangeness in your smile

Do you smile to tempt a lover, Mona Lisa
Or is this your way to hide a broken heart?

Many dreams
Have been brought
To your doorstep...

They just lie there...
And they die there...

Are you warm,
Are you real,
Mona Lisa?

Or just a cold and lonely,
Lovely work of art?

Cheers,

Tarjei
http://uncletaz.com/

...................................................................................................................................

From: dottie zold
Date: Sun Mar 14, 2004 2:54 pm
Subject: Rép. : [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Novalis

Christine:

The third boy (the one to our left of Mary) is the young John, later to be the Baptist (Jesus' cousin) you can usually tell, because in most paintings he is wearing an animal skin and has a "staff" like the one in the picture (even though etherial).

Wait a second. I know the one carring the cross staff, which to me later becomes the symbol the Popes carry, is John the Baptist. Are you saying that Raphael drew two Jesus boys? That would be astonishing to me.

Dottie

...................................................................................................................................

From: golden3000997
Date: Sun Mar 14, 2004 3:02 pm
Subject: Re: Rép. : [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Novalis

YUP! : )

...................................................................................................................................

From: dottie zold
Date: Sun Mar 14, 2004 3:12 pm
Subject: Re: Rép. : [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Novalis

Christine:

YUP! : )

Who said that? Did Dr. Steiner say that these three people are specifically the two Jesus boys and John the Baptist? And where did he say this if anyone can recall?

Whew,

...................................................................................................................................

From: golden3000997
Date: Sun Mar 14, 2004 3:50 pm
Subject: Re: Rép. : [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Novalis

Well, there are lots of pix with two boys - usually one Jesus and one John the Baptist. But when you see three boys - what does that tell you?

I don't know of a reference to this particular painting. Maybe someone else does.

Christine

...................................................................................................................................

From: dottie zold
Date: Sun Mar 14, 2004 5:31 pm
Subject: Re: Rép. : [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Novalis

--- golden3000997 wrote:

Well, there are lots of pix with two boys - usually one Jesus and one John the Baptist. But when you see three boys - what does that tell you?

It tells me a girl is in the mix:)
is what it tells me:)

By the way it seems in my opinion that Rittlemayer and Sergio Prokofieff do not see the Lazarus rising in the same manner Mr. Smith speaks on. I believe there is something fuzzy in the way it is expressed in the views I have seen here and in both of his books I have now read or at least the parts I have read. I will give a quote from both these men in the next few days. It seems to me they are alluding to something different although I am sure not what I am trying to express. I am sure you will wait with abaited breath for this:)

Dottiee

...................................................................................................................................

From: Frank Thomas Smith
Date: Tue Mar 16, 2004 12:25 pm
Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Novalis

There's a nice novel (Booker Prize) about Novalis and Sophie von Kühn, whom N fell in love with when she was 12 years old. Author: Penelope Fitzgerald, title: The Blue Flower.

Frank

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