Sex

To Mike from Christine

 

From: golden3000997
Date: Sun Mar 28, 2004 6:18 am
Subject: To Mike from Christine

Hi Mike,

I think it's the way you phrased your original question to the group that was lame. Talking about sex without love, not a real searching question on the overall meaning of love, which has to be the starting point for discussing sex.

When I said that I hoped your attitude had improved, I was refering to the fact that you had already mentioned that you and your wife were in counseling and had decided to stay together. I was hoping that in this learning process, you had been developing your own relationship to love and sex in a more healthy way than before.

What is sex? It is "me". What is love? It is "you". When I am focused on "me" I want sex. When I am focused on "you" I am in love. The secret is that there is a "higher" form of sex that happens when both partners are equally focused on "you". But to get there, each has to work through many illusions, projections on the other of our hopes, dreams and desires that are really "me" and not "you". That is why early love and marriage relationships in today's world burn hot and die out. The "you" we are in love with usually isn't real at all. We are bombarded with images and illusions with which to fashion our projections. Also, our dysfunctional childhoods usually have given us no real ability to relate to the "you" in anyone. So, as soon as the real "you" in the other person interferes with the projection we "are in love with", we get uncomfortable. As soon as the "you" in the other person gets so real that it shatters the projection, we want OUT. In these relationships there is no real "you" - therefore, no LOVE. It is really all "me" and often "great" sex because of that.

If one is lucky enough to have witnessed a healthy marriage as a child and healthy family relationships which are based on love and where people primarily love the "you" in each other, then one can look for and relate to the "you" in one's future partner, too. As we know all too well, our families' dysfunctions are usually several generations back in their origins and we grow up without a clue as to what love is. Our sense of survival makes the focus on "me" the driving force in our lives (I come from an alcoholic home, too). We try many things to "make it work" in our desperation to have a relationship which we THINK is "normal". But ACOA literature will spell out clearly that we have absolutely no idea WHAT "normal" is. We bargain with our partners, we use every manipulative trick that we learned while surviving our families, we use every internal protective mechanism that we developed to cope with our relationships in the past. We can't afford to let our partner see our real "me" - we already know that that real "me" isn't lovable - it has been the target for so much abuse. So, as teens and young adults we work feverishly to create an artificial "me" for public viewing. (Re: every magazine at the supermarket check out, from Young Miss to Oprah) We are not interested (most of the time) in the real "you" of our partners, either. We only look for appearances, behaviors, speech patterns and subtle, psychological attitudes that trigger our projections of the "ideal" "you".

Of course, this fragile construct is vulnerable to every passing wind of change and when it breaks down, we flee to the next person who has the qualities we need to re-build our projection.

Some people go on their whole lives like this, having multiple relationships of varying "success" - that "success" determined by the length of time both people are able to maintain their projections. Some "fortunate" couples spend their whole lives together "successfully" often having silently (semi- or un-conciously) agreed to live out their partners projections. In these cases, there is often mutual benefit to the arrangement - social, economic, emotional - that keeps it from being too much of a hardship.

Sometimes, in such a "successful" marriage, one or both partners mutes their projections and seeks other sex partners to blow up their illusions on. Voila! The passionate "affair".

It is the rare and precious relationship, whether marriage or otherwise, in which both partners have acheived some amount of psychological health and are able to accept and love the "me" in themselves as it really is. The most rare examples are those who were raised with a healthy sense of themselves and their intrinsic value in family relationships. They were allowed to be themselves and were taught to accept and value the "real you" in their family members.

The next rare, but also lucky examples are those who decided at some point (hopefully early on) that what they were experiencing in their family of origin was NOT healthy and began to search for the truth of the matter and how to heal the damage that was done to their sense of the "real me". All of us who traveled this road (and may be still traveling it) know that it is hard, bumpy, full of pits and ruts, thorns and brambles. We seek the Princess asleep in the Tower surrounded by fatal thorns. (Doesn't matter if we are in a male or female body). Only by seeking and freeing this Briar Rose can we "wake up" all of the relationships in our lives. Our first healthy relationship has to be with the "real me".

Then, and only then, can the "real me" begin to see the "real you" in those around us. Only then can there be the possibility of LOVE. Love as a Seed. If we have the fortune to be able to allow the "real you" of the other to plant the seed of love in our heart and to allow our own "real me" to take the risk of planting the seed of love in the other's heart, then we have the possibility (in time) of Love growing into Deed. (As opposed to love as Need). A lifetime of Love's Deeds, which are real and gritty and sometimes require everything we have to give, can become Love Freed. This Freed Love becomes a force, a power, a factor in the world around the couple and even "at large." This is a subtle, but dynamic energy that goes out from the couple as a force of strength and healing for others. Sometimes it is related to tangible work the couple is doing together in the world. Sometimes it is a more generalized donation. But always, it is created by something that lives as MORE than what each individual alone is capable of. This is the true "Magic" - the real alchemy - not the "magic" of illusions.

Now for the beautiful secret of Love. Love is a Threefold Entity. Eros, Philia and Agape. All three must be present for any of them to be real.

Eros - Erotic Love - This is Creative, physically real love. The expression is primarily that of bodily sex, but has been shown by many contemporary psychologists to also be the driving force of a myriad of creative energies. From this comes Creation (as it is in our material world). Even without a partner in our life, each of us has Eros - the need to create. On a practical level, it could be the creation of children. But it can also be an energy channeled into any physical manifestation that the couple chooses.

Philia - Brotherly Love - This is Compassion. This is the level of Love at which we can share the hopes, fears, happiness and sorrow of another human being. How many times have we seen a couple who supposedly "love" each other, but who ignore the pain of their partner or even cause it? A couple who have developed the real capacity to love could never ignore the pain of their partner or even their partner's interests, thoughts, feelings and work in life. With true compassion, everything about "you" becomes very interesting, because it has become part of "me". Everything you Think, Feel and Do is as if I were Thinking, Feeling and Doing it, too. This love, of course, exists well outside of a male/ female partnership, but even there it is related to some kind of creative drive.

Agape - Spiritual Love - This is Conscious Love. I will say "Christ Consciouness" imbued Love. This is the recognition of the Eternal "I AM" in the Other, which is also in Our Self. This is the committment that goes beyond time and place, for richer, for poorer, for better or for worse, in sickness and in health, til Death do us part. In spite of those words sounding materially based, when lifted into Agape, we can hear them afresh as speaking of Karma, of life in the Material World and in the Spiritual World between lifetimes. And in that Christ has overcome Death, then any relationship that is blessed with Christ Conciousness is not parted at Death, but lives on in Christ forever.

This is the love that follows "you" to the grave. I die with "you" and am reborn with "you". It is the promise of the Eternal Nature of Love. We lose everything else as we go through the many "gates" of Death, but we will not lose Conscious Love - Christ filled, Heart filled, True Love. This is our promise. This is what makes it all worth while. Gilgamesh can now follow Enkidu through the portal of death into Life beyond the grave. "I" can follow "you" there and we will be together forever.

When Christ spoke of the fact that there is no marriage in Heaven, he was refering to the mundane, legal contract that the people were asking about. It was this contract that he was referring to when he condemned divorce as a legal deed that could be used to put a woman out of house and home and with no means of support, forcing her to become an adulteress. He condemned the men that did this for their "hardness of heart." But the marriage contract means nothing beyond the grave. The only truth that can be carried across the Threshold is "I am with You always, even unto the end of time." In as much as the Christ is in "me" and is in "you" then we are with each other always, even unto the end of time.

Christine

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From: danifyou
Date: Sun Mar 28, 2004 6:31 am
Subject: Rép. : [anthroposophy_tomorrow] To Mike from Christine

Bravo!

Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind!

May have to do also with the film title same!...

I'll let you know Christine

For I'm going to see it today!

Have a Nice Day!

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From: dottie zold
Date: Sun Mar 28, 2004 7:24 am
Subject: Re: To Mike from Christine

Dear Christine, the whole post was amazing but this below is absolutely stunning.

Good Sunday,

Dottie

Christine:

Agape - Spiritual Love - This is Conscious Love. I will say "Christ Consciouness" imbued Love. This is the recognition of the Eternal "I AM" in the Other, which is also in Our Self. This is the committment that goes beyond time and place, for richer, for poorer, for better or for worse, in sickness and in health, til Death do us part. In spite of those words sounding materially based, when lifted into Agape, we can hear them afresh as speaking of Karma, of life in the Material World and in the Spiritual World between lifetimes. And in that Christ has overcome Death, then any relationship that is blessed with Christ Conciousness is not parted at Death, but lives on in Christ forever.

This is the love that follows "you" to the grave. I die with "you" and am reborn with "you". It is the promise of the Eternal Nature of Love. We lose everything else as we go through the many "gates" of Death, but we will not lose Conscious Love - Christ filled, Heart filled, True Love. This is our promise. This is what makes it all worth while. Gilgamesh can now follow Enkidu through the portal of death into Life beyond the grave. "I" can follow "you" there and we will be together forever.

When Christ spoke of the fact that there is no marriage in Heaven, he was refering to the mundane, legal contract that the people were asking about. It was this contract that he was referring to when he condemned divorce as a legal deed that could be used to put a woman out of house and home and with no means of support, forcing her to become an adulteress. He condemned the men that did this for their "hardness of heart." But the marriage contract means nothing beyond the grave. The only truth that can be carried across the Threshold is "I am with You always, even unto the end of time." In as much as the Christ is in "me" and is in "you" then we are with each other always, even unto the end of time.

Christine

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From: holderlin66
Date: Sun Mar 28, 2004 9:38 am
Subject: Re: To Mike from Christine

Christine wrote, so wonderfully;

[snip]

My comment:

No further comment except my warm tears of joy!

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From: "Mike Helsher" <mhelsher@ne.rr.com>
Date: Mon Mar 29, 2004 6:50 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: To Mike from Christine

Christine wrote, so wonderfully;

[snip]

My comment:

No further comment except my warm tears of joy!

I'm totally with Bradrofd on this one.

Warmly

Mike

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From: Mike Helsher
Date: Tue Mar 30, 2004 6:38 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] To Mike from Christine

Dear Christine, You wrote:

Hi Mike,

I think it's the way you phrased your original question to the group that was lame. Talking about sex without love, not a real searching question on the overall meaning of love, which has to be the starting point for discussing sex.

When I said that I hoped your attitude had improved, I was refering to the fact that you had already mentioned that you and your wife were in counseling and had decided to stay together. I was hoping that in this learning process, you had been developing your own relationship to love and sex in a more healthy way than before.

<snip>

It really hurt to snip the rest of your beautiful post. I've been meaning to find the time to thank you but have been really busy lately.

So Thanks :^)

It is always hard for me to give up concepts that have provided some comfort. There was/is a part of me that has always known that the information given to me about myself, was given to me by misinformed people. It was a painful process that brought me to the idea that physical sex had nothing to do with love. And without the other two aspects of love the you describe, it certainly leaves one feeling empty, after the euphoria wares off.

So I think it was a helpful necessary concept that has served it's purpose, and now must burn it the fire.

As to your mention of the promise of Love, I haphazardly opened my Bible this morning, and the page in front of me was Hebrews: 8.

"I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts."

Really grateful to be a member of this list.

Mike

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