Sex
To Mike from Christine
From: golden3000997
Date: Sun Mar 28, 2004 6:18 am
Subject: To Mike from Christine
Hi Mike,
I think it's the way you phrased your
original question to the group that was lame. Talking about
sex without love, not a real searching question on the overall
meaning of love, which has to be the starting point for discussing
sex.
When I said that I hoped your attitude had
improved, I was refering to the fact that you had already mentioned
that you and your wife were in counseling and had decided to
stay together. I was hoping that in this learning process, you
had been developing your own relationship to love and sex in
a more healthy way than before.
What is sex? It is "me". What is
love? It is "you". When I am focused on "me"
I want sex. When I am focused on "you" I am in love.
The secret is that there is a "higher" form of sex
that happens when both partners are equally focused on "you".
But to get there, each has to work through many illusions, projections
on the other of our hopes, dreams and desires that are really
"me" and not "you". That is why early love
and marriage relationships in today's world burn hot and die
out. The "you" we are in love with usually isn't real
at all. We are bombarded with images and illusions with which
to fashion our projections. Also, our dysfunctional childhoods
usually have given us no real ability to relate to the "you"
in anyone. So, as soon as the real "you" in the other
person interferes with the projection we "are in love with",
we get uncomfortable. As soon as the "you" in the other
person gets so real that it shatters the projection, we want
OUT. In these relationships there is no real "you"
- therefore, no LOVE. It is really all "me" and often
"great" sex because of that.
If one is lucky enough to have witnessed a
healthy marriage as a child and healthy family relationships
which are based on love and where people primarily love the "you"
in each other, then one can look for and relate to the "you"
in one's future partner, too. As we know all too well, our families'
dysfunctions are usually several generations back in their origins
and we grow up without a clue as to what love is. Our sense of
survival makes the focus on "me" the driving force
in our lives (I come from an alcoholic home, too). We try many
things to "make it work" in our desperation to have
a relationship which we THINK is "normal". But ACOA
literature will spell out clearly that we have absolutely no
idea WHAT "normal" is. We bargain with our partners,
we use every manipulative trick that we learned while surviving
our families, we use every internal protective mechanism that
we developed to cope with our relationships in the past. We can't
afford to let our partner see our real "me" - we already
know that that real "me" isn't lovable - it has been
the target for so much abuse. So, as teens and young adults we
work feverishly to create an artificial "me" for public
viewing. (Re: every magazine at the supermarket check out, from
Young Miss to Oprah) We are not interested (most of the time)
in the real "you" of our partners, either. We only
look for appearances, behaviors, speech patterns and subtle,
psychological attitudes that trigger our projections of the
"ideal" "you".
Of course, this fragile construct is vulnerable
to every passing wind of change and when it breaks down, we flee
to the next person who has the qualities we
need to re-build our projection.
Some people go on their whole lives like this,
having multiple relationships of varying "success"
- that "success" determined by the length of time both
people are able to maintain their projections. Some "fortunate"
couples spend their whole lives together "successfully"
often having silently (semi- or un-conciously) agreed to live
out their partners projections. In these cases, there is often
mutual benefit to the arrangement - social, economic, emotional
- that keeps it from being too much of a hardship.
Sometimes, in such a "successful"
marriage, one or both partners mutes their projections and seeks
other sex partners to blow up their illusions on. Voila! The
passionate "affair".
It is the rare and precious relationship,
whether marriage or otherwise, in which both partners have acheived
some amount of psychological health and are able to accept and
love the "me" in themselves as it really is. The most
rare examples are those who were raised with a healthy sense
of themselves and their intrinsic value in family relationships.
They were allowed to be themselves and were taught to accept
and value the "real you" in their family members.
The next rare, but also lucky examples are
those who decided at some point (hopefully early on) that what
they were experiencing in their family of origin was NOT healthy
and began to search for the truth of the matter and how to heal
the damage that was done to their sense of the "real me".
All of us who traveled this road (and may be still traveling
it) know that it is hard, bumpy, full of pits and ruts, thorns
and brambles. We seek the Princess asleep in the Tower surrounded
by fatal thorns. (Doesn't matter if we are in a male or female
body). Only by seeking and freeing this Briar Rose can we "wake
up" all of the relationships in our lives. Our first healthy
relationship has to be with the "real me".
Then, and only then, can the "real me"
begin to see the "real you" in those around us. Only
then can there be the possibility of LOVE. Love as a Seed. If
we have the fortune to be able to allow the "real you"
of the other to plant the seed of love in our heart and to allow
our own "real me" to take the risk of planting the seed of love in the other's heart, then
we have the possibility (in time) of Love growing into Deed.
(As opposed to love as Need). A lifetime of Love's Deeds, which
are real and gritty and sometimes require everything we have
to give, can become Love Freed. This Freed Love becomes a force,
a power, a factor in the world around the couple and even "at
large." This is a subtle, but dynamic energy that goes out
from the couple as a force of strength and healing for others.
Sometimes it is related to tangible work the couple is doing
together in the world. Sometimes it is a more generalized donation.
But always, it is created by something that lives as MORE than
what each individual alone is capable of. This is the true "Magic"
- the real alchemy - not the "magic" of illusions.
Now for the beautiful
secret of Love. Love is a Threefold Entity. Eros, Philia and
Agape. All three must be present for any of them to be real.
Eros - Erotic Love - This is Creative, physically
real love. The expression is primarily that of bodily sex, but
has been shown by many contemporary psychologists to also be
the driving force of a myriad of creative energies. From this
comes Creation (as it is in our material world). Even without
a partner in our life, each of us has Eros - the need to create.
On a practical level, it could be the creation of children. But
it can also be an energy channeled into any physical manifestation
that the couple chooses.
Philia - Brotherly Love - This is Compassion.
This is the level of Love at which we can share the hopes, fears,
happiness and sorrow of another human being. How many times have
we seen a couple who supposedly "love" each other,
but who ignore the pain of their partner or even cause it? A
couple who have developed the real capacity to love could never
ignore the pain of their partner or even their partner's interests,
thoughts, feelings and work in life. With true compassion, everything
about "you" becomes very interesting, because it has
become part of "me". Everything you Think, Feel and
Do is as if I were Thinking, Feeling and Doing it, too. This
love, of course, exists well outside of a male/ female partnership,
but even there it is related to some kind of creative drive.
Agape - Spiritual Love - This is Conscious
Love. I will say "Christ Consciouness" imbued Love.
This is the recognition of the Eternal "I AM" in the
Other, which is also in Our Self. This is the committment that
goes beyond time and place, for richer, for poorer, for better
or for worse, in sickness and in health, til Death do us part.
In spite of those words sounding materially based, when lifted into Agape, we can hear them afresh as
speaking of Karma, of life in the Material World and in the Spiritual
World between lifetimes. And in that Christ has overcome Death,
then any relationship that is blessed with Christ Conciousness
is not parted at Death, but lives on in Christ forever.
This is the love that follows "you"
to the grave. I die with "you" and am reborn with "you".
It is the promise of the Eternal Nature of Love. We lose everything
else as we go through the many "gates" of Death, but
we will not lose Conscious Love - Christ filled, Heart filled,
True Love. This is our promise. This is what makes
it all worth while. Gilgamesh can now follow Enkidu through the
portal of death into Life beyond the grave. "I" can
follow "you" there and we will be together forever.
When Christ spoke of the fact that there is
no marriage in Heaven, he was refering to the mundane, legal
contract that the people were asking about. It was this contract
that he was referring to when he condemned divorce as a legal
deed that could be used to put a woman out of house and home
and with no means of support, forcing her to become an adulteress.
He condemned the men that did this for their "hardness of
heart." But the marriage contract means nothing beyond the
grave. The only truth that can be carried across the Threshold
is "I am with You always, even unto the end of time."
In as much as the Christ is in "me" and is in "you"
then we are with each other always, even unto the end of time.
Christine
...................................................................................................................................
From: danifyou
Date: Sun Mar 28, 2004 6:31 am
Subject: Rép. : [anthroposophy_tomorrow] To Mike from
Christine
Bravo!
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind!
May have to do also with the film title same!...
I'll let you know Christine
For I'm going to see it today!
Have a Nice Day!
...................................................................................................................................
From: dottie zold
Date: Sun Mar 28, 2004 7:24 am
Subject: Re: To Mike from Christine
Dear Christine, the whole post was amazing
but this below is absolutely stunning.
Good Sunday,
Dottie
Christine:
Agape - Spiritual Love - This is Conscious
Love. I will say "Christ Consciouness" imbued Love.
This is the recognition of the Eternal "I AM" in the
Other, which is also in Our Self. This is the committment that
goes beyond time and place, for richer, for poorer, for better
or for worse, in sickness and in health, til Death do us part.
In spite of those words sounding materially based, when lifted into Agape, we can hear them afresh as
speaking of Karma, of life in the Material World and in the Spiritual
World between lifetimes. And in that Christ has overcome Death,
then any relationship that is blessed with Christ Conciousness
is not parted at Death, but lives on in Christ forever.
This is the love that follows "you"
to the grave. I die with "you" and am reborn with "you".
It is the promise of the Eternal Nature of Love. We lose everything
else as we go through the many "gates" of Death, but
we will not lose Conscious Love - Christ filled, Heart filled,
True Love. This is our promise. This is what makes
it all worth while. Gilgamesh can now follow Enkidu through the
portal of death into Life beyond the grave. "I" can
follow "you" there and we will be together forever.
When Christ spoke of the fact that there
is no marriage in Heaven, he was refering to the mundane, legal
contract that the people were asking about. It was this contract
that he was referring to when he condemned divorce as a legal
deed that could be used to put a woman out of house and home
and with no means of support, forcing her to become an adulteress.
He condemned the men that did this for their "hardness of
heart." But the marriage contract means nothing beyond the
grave. The only truth that can be carried across the Threshold
is "I am with You always, even unto the end of time."
In as much as the Christ is in "me" and is in "you"
then we are with each other always, even unto the end of time.
Christine
...................................................................................................................................
From: holderlin66
Date: Sun Mar 28, 2004 9:38 am
Subject: Re: To Mike from Christine
Christine wrote, so wonderfully;
[snip]
My comment:
No further comment except my warm tears of
joy!
...................................................................................................................................
From: "Mike Helsher" <mhelsher@ne.rr.com>
Date: Mon Mar 29, 2004 6:50 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: To Mike from Christine
Christine wrote, so wonderfully;
[snip]
My comment:
No further comment except my warm tears of joy!
I'm totally with Bradrofd on this one.
Warmly
Mike
...................................................................................................................................
From: Mike Helsher
Date: Tue Mar 30, 2004 6:38 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] To Mike from Christine
Dear Christine, You wrote:
Hi Mike,
I think it's the way you phrased your original
question to the group that was lame. Talking about sex without
love, not a real searching question on the overall meaning of
love, which has to be the starting point for discussing sex.
When I said that I hoped your attitude
had improved, I was refering to the fact that you had already
mentioned that you and your wife were in counseling and had decided
to stay together. I was hoping that in this learning process,
you had been developing your own relationship to love and sex
in a more healthy way than before.
<snip>
It really hurt to snip the rest of your beautiful
post. I've been meaning to find the time to thank you but have
been really busy lately.
So Thanks :^)
It is always hard for me to give up concepts
that have provided some comfort. There was/is a part of me that
has always known that the information given to me about myself,
was given to me by misinformed people. It was a painful process
that brought me to the idea that physical sex had nothing to
do with love. And without the other two aspects of love the you
describe, it certainly leaves one feeling empty, after the euphoria
wares off.
So I think it was a helpful necessary concept
that has served it's purpose, and now must burn it the fire.
As to your mention of the promise of Love,
I haphazardly opened my Bible this morning, and the page in front
of me was Hebrews: 8.
"I will put my laws into
their minds, and write them on their hearts."
Really grateful to be a member of this list.
Mike
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