The Nature of Animals
From: golden3000997
Date: Sun Nov 30, 2003 10:17 am
Subject: Re: The Nature of Animals
Hello Kim, Daniel, et al,
I really, really want to write a treatise
on this subject, but I can't right at the moment. But your example,
Daniel of your brother's dog is what I would base the treatise
on.
I sit here surrounded by books and cats. I
have 11 cats. I used to have a dog but it was too difficult to
keep him here in an apartment with no one else to help walk him,
etc. if I couldn't get home on time. His name was Archer, short
for Royal Archer Goldenheart. When I was sixteen (going on seventeen)
I had and lost a kitten while I was at Threefold Farm in Spring
Valley for the summer, my first exposure to RS & Anthroposophy.
I was really upset and I young woman from the community comforted
me and told me for the first time about what happens to animals
when we have loved them. She told me that by the very fact of
their loving contact with us, they do not go back to the group
soul as such (or at least not all parts of them do) but that
they become "salamanders" ie, spirits of fire that
stay around our auras and work to create further bonds of love
between us and other animals.
Nothing in the past 36 years has made me believe
anything different. What I understand from Occult Science and
especially "Man as Symphony of the Creative Word" is
that there is a difference between what we find in nature as
animal, plant or mineral in its "untouched" state and
what it becomes through contact with Man. When we see a tree,
we can "release" the nature spirit within it to go
on in the spiritual world through our being concious of its existence,
for example. So we have to view the question raised here in terms
of past present and future and in terms of the effect of contact
with Man. Occult Science teaches us about the Past in relationship
to the evolution of the earth and its four kingdoms, mineral,
plant, animal and man. We live now in the Present and find each
one of us, a relationship with the other three kingdoms. Then
we can move into the Imaginations that Steiner gave us and ask
ourselves, how will what I do now affect the evolution of the
other kingdoms of earth?
We cannot lump "Animals" together
anymore than we can say "Children" and mean every age
and stage of development.
This is what comes up in my imagination. There
are three basic "types" of animals:
1. Animals born and living "in the wild"
in areas that still exist relatively untouched by Man's presence.
While this type of animal used to be predominant, there are very
few such domains left.
2. Animals used by man as food or "slaves"
to be exploited and mistreated if it creates a perceived benefit
to man. This has always been a dominant area of man's relationship,
but in my opinion has become even more cruel and harsh as man
has moved farther away from being able to perceive the spirit
in nature.
3. Animals "owned" by man as pets
or companions. While some in this relationship, especially dogs
and horses may seem to fall into the second category, because
many dogs and horses "work" for or with man, I make
a distinction when there is a real bond of affection and respect
between them. Other animals like cats, birds, gerbils, etc. may
not serve any outward purpose at all other than furnishing their
human with something to talk to or to cuddle with.
The animals that are still part of the first
group, whatever species they may be would then return to the
Group Soul or Group Ego after their death, more or less as they
were except for whatever they bring into that Species of their
recent experiences.
The animals of the second group probably return
to the Group Soul, too. But I have to ask myself, could they
really ever be the same? Does their horrible experience at the
hands of Man change or affect the very nature of the Group Soul
and its relationship to Man in general? I would think that it
does somehow.
There are examples to be found in certain
works of fiction, but I wonder if we can really grasp the karma
being created here.
The animals of the third group, however, could
perhaps be the ones to work as redeemers of the second group
in a sense, to counter the negative karma between the Animal
Kingdom and its Human Slaveowners and Cruel Overseers. Perhaps,
whereever an animal has shared love and respect with a human,
this love can act as a kind of homeopathic remedy to the illness
that our blind cruelty is causing. I think that animals in this
third group contribute much to the group soul, but part of them
begins to form the seed of an individual Ego that will develop
in the far, far reaches of time, maybe past the Jupiter and Venus
ages of the Earth. By this I mean to the point of creating specific
Man-like bodies in which to incarnate as Egos on the planet.
This is really hard to put into concepts, because the physical
nature of the earth and the physical forms of individual Human
Egos will have changed so much by then. But from the moment that
love arises, each animal "soul" (little Ego) can come
into Being.
One really has to have pampered pets or know
someone who does to really experience their individuality. It
can lead an outward observer to think, perhaps, well, animals
have personalities to begin with. But not exactly. This "personality"
arises from the interaction of animal soul with human soul, like
the human soul arises out of the interaction of human body with
human spirit. That's why it's so much
fun to go to a dog or cat show just to see the animals with their
humans and to see how much they look alike!!! The etheric bodies
grow so connected. It can be really funny!!
But this is not to belittle the connection.
It is a very serious matter. For with Love comes Responsibility
and we become responsible for these "little Egos" the
way our Angels are responsible for us. We are the tenth Hierarchy.
The Animals are the 11th, the Plants -
the 12th and the Minerals, the 13th. There is so much work yet
to do!! For all practical intents and purposes, we are NEVER
going to get to lie around heaven playing harps!!! There will
always be more unfolding, creating and transforming to do!
I often wonder (really) what it means that
my animals hear music in their immediate environment, never mind
the hours of conversation!!! No animal "in the wild" hears Beethoven or the Beatles! (or me
singing, for that matter - lucky them!) What can this mean? Certainly
an animal who hears music all of its life cannot just go back
to a group soul as something less than an individual! Something
totally outside the spiritual reality of the Group Soul has been
added. What does this really mean? I don't know, I just wonder.
So, no, in terms of the current human population
of the earth, we are not side by side with recently evolved animals
(just not fair to the animals, this idea!) But we are side by
side with animals who look to us for the love (in action) that
will activate the "little Ego" within them which will
grow in long ages into Individuality similar to what we now consider
Human.
OK, now for a REAL confession (ooh, I can
just hear many of you going to be howling at me for this) - I
just LOVE the Pet Psychic, Sonia Fitzpatrick. Please, please
DON'T condemn without experiencing her program at least once.
I personally don't find any problem reconciling who she is and
what she does with RS. She is day-waking concious, there is no
mediumship involved. She is communicating with animals on this
side of existence and the other side who are deeply loved by
human beings, most of which are in long term relationships. Therefore,
the "little Egos" that she is speaking with are something
more than group soul members. There is so very much love. And
not just mushy sentimentality - real love in action, real forgiveness,
real redemption and healing. The one phrase she uses over and
over again is "Remember, Animals are Forever!" In terms
of Love, which is all that really is Eternal,
this is absolute Truth.
With love,
Christine
and Baldur, Wicca, Maxi, Perseus, Govinda,
Cleo, Calli, Bijoux, Andromeda, Sasha and Molly : )
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From: Daniel Hindes
Date: Sun Nov 30, 2003 12:09 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: The Nature of Animals
Christine,
Thank you for this detailed post, which helped me bring clarity
to a number of thoughts I have been having recently. I agree
with nearly all you have written (and to the rest it is more
that I am unclear at the moment, and not that I believe to the
contrary). I have heard the salamander explanation before, perhaps
even read it, though I can't seem to locate the source right
now. What is not clear to me (because, among other things, I
am not able to directly percieve it) is the nature of this salamander
(or other elemental) and it's further evolution in the world.
I can understand that in my relationship to Oso (my brother's
dog) I transform a part of him. This transformed part survives
his death, and does not return to the group soul. That transformed
part then has a relationship to me, becomes a part of my being,
and works for good or ill upon my supersensible members. Where
it goes after my death is unclear to me. Further, should this
elemental continue to higher development rather than dissolve
back into the world eather or astral, then the group soul of
dogness and I have together created a being, an offspring, that
would continue independent of me. That's a lot of responsibility!
Where does this leave Oso in this theoretical
exercise? He is still not an ego-endowed being, or even himself
the creator of one, he is a canvas, provided by the group sould
of dogness, upon which I create the subsequent being by my actions
and feelings.
Perhaps I am looking at things from the wrong
angle, or am missing an important piece of information. But I
will continue to try to understand. Thank you for the help.
Daniel Hindes
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From: golden3000997
Date: Sun Nov 30, 2003 5:04 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: The Nature of Animals
Hi Daniel,
Well, first of all, Oso isn't your dog, with
whom you have a day to day long term relationship, so he probably
won't be your responsibility. : )
I really tried to make the distinction between
the wide angles of our relationships with animals. I can't say
exactly HOW this all works after death, but I picture them as
beings of special warmth that come close again to us after death
and retain their "emotional" form as the pets we loved
in life until we are ready to "see" them in the spiritual
world in a little less specific form. I think
they simply stay with us and work as little "love angels"
(probably too mushy stuff for the guys here!). Probably something
of their nature goes back to the group soul, like parts of our
physical, etheric and astral bodies go back to those spheres.
When we come back to earth, they probably come back as animals
in our lives too. Sonia Fitzpatrick, the pet psychic has been
very definite about their ability to come back to us. She often,
but not always lets grieving pet lovers that their companion
will come back during their life time. I know it sounds awful
out of context, but you need to watch her interact, please before
being too closed minded. I think in the first place, I don't
feel that animals are "mindless" to begin with. Especially
in the species that have been so intimately connected with humans
for so many eons, I think even the group souls are quite "with
us" in a sense, not necessarily remote.
In any case, animals are certainly tied to
us intimately in the entire evolution of the earth and we have
a mutually dependent relationship already. We already
bear responsibility for their well-being whether we choose to
accept it or not. Individual animals who live with us are just
special ambassadors in our lives. How we treat them and act out
of love or not is as significant as how we act toward one another.
Personally, I love the responsibility. I love
the thought that we will be able to give to them someday the
kind of love that the angels give to us now. But don't mind me
- I'm just a crazy old cat lady!!! : )
.............................................................................................................................
From: Daniel Hindes
Date: Sun Nov 30, 2003 5:18 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: The Nature of Animals
Christine,
Thank you for the additional material. I am still working on
the question, and suspect that I will be for some time to come.
For a little fun I offer this article from
the Atlantic (July 1999) on canine behavior: http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/99jul/9907dogs.htm
This is the summary:
Recent explorations into the field of canine genetics are changing
the way we think about man's best friend -- "man's best
parasite" may be more like it -- and could help us repair
the damage done by a century of inbreeding.
Among some of the interesting statements:
"Probably 90 to 95 percent of the dog genome and the human
genome are identical."
Daniel
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From: golden3000997
Date: Sun Nov 30, 2003 5:58 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: The Nature of Animals
From the article you pointed me to:
In the United States there are about 50 million
owned dogs and millions more unowned -- eloquent evolutionary
testimony to the wisdom of mooching off people rather than fighting
it out in the wild.
Yeah, but they are amateurs compared to cats!!!!
: )LOL
Thus reading social cues adeptly, down to
such details of body language as a flick of the ear or the angle
of a tail, is the most basic of canine instincts. "That's
what dogs do for a living," Gregory Acland says. "They
figure out what's expected of them in a social situation and
do it."
Cats don't even bother with that nonsense!
They are only concerned with what they expect from us!
And in a very real sense mutts today embody
the evolutionary heritage of the True Dog -- that animal that
evolved with us, that adapted to and exploited our society, and
did so largely on his own terms. Defiant of human fashion and
whim, selected only in accordance with the ancient evolutionary
dictate that demands nothing more than an ability to get along
with rather gullible human beings, mutts are really what dogs
are about. If worst comes to worst, perhaps they will set us
straight, just as their ancestors so ably did -- at least for
99,900 of the past 100,000 years.
But Cats will be the ones to set both Humans
and Dogs straight in the end! :)
.............................................................................................................................
From: Richard Distasi
Date: Mon Dec 1, 2003 5:03 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: The Nature of Animals
Christine, Kim and Daniel:
Christine, you wrote:
When we see a tree, we can "release" the nature
spirit within it to go on in the spiritual world through our
being concious of its existence, for example.
And:
She told me that by the very fact of their loving contact
with us, they do not go back to the group soul as such (or at
least not all parts of them do) but that they become "salamanders"
ie, spirits of fire that stay around our auras and work to create
further bonds of love between us and other animals.
This has been the point that I had tried to make earlier in another
posts. It is not the animal soul, the plant and mineral essence
that becomes Ego-endowed in the future (at least I should say
as I understand this) but rather it is the nature spirits in
these realms that are eventually freed from these realms of which
they are dependent upon us to free them from the realms. They
are the next wave of Beings to become Ego-endowed. That part
of the animal that does not go back to the group soul is the
salamander; not the astral body of the animal. By contact with
humans it does grow closer to becoming and Ego-endowed Being.
Does the family dog have a personality. Anyone who has ever lived
with a dog would certainly agree to this. Is this the dog or
is it the salamander that grows in soul forces due to its contact
with humans; that is, humans act as a conduit for the salamanders
growth.
rick distasi
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To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
From: eyecueco
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 21:53:00 -0000
Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: The Nature of Animals
--- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com,
golden3000997 wrote:
I sit here surrounded by books and cats.
I have 11 cats. I used to have a dog but it was too difficult
to keep him here in an apartment with no one else to help walk
him, etc. if I couldn't get home on time. His name was Archer,
short for Royal Archer Goldenheart. When I was sixteen (going
on seventeen) I had and lost a kitten while I was at Threefold
Farm in Spring Valley for the summer, my first exposure to RS
& Anthroposophy. I was really upset and I young woman from
the community comforted me and told me for the first time about
what happens to animals when we have loved them. She told me
that by the very fact of their loving contact with us, they do
not go back to the group soul as such (or at least not all parts
of them do) but that they become "salamanders" ie,
spirits of fire that stay around our auras and work to create
further bonds of love between us and other animals.
Christine,
I wanted to write and thank you for this post as it has been
a comfort that I needed.
My dog-child is going on fifteen and is on her way out. I've
been incredibly worried about her and if she would be able to
find her way back to her group soul (my Steiner focus over the
years has been on the Christologies even though I studied the
basic books).
She has, from the beginning, been way too
attatched to me; kind of like the stage of a two year old child.
This past six months I have worried that this too-close-bonding
would result in her not being able to make it back where she
needs to be.
I just hope that she will be happy as a salamander!
LOL
Another thought that occurs to me on this
salamander tranformation, so to speak, is how in the past year
she had been seeing something or somethings that she doesn't
like very much that seem to be circling around her from time
to time. After meditating on this I concluded that my past pets,
in some kind of spirit form, might be drawing closer to her in
order to be with her when the time comes for her to leave.
Now, thinking on the salamander, I don't wonder
if this might be what she is seeing. Whatever it is it they are
small and when they get too annoying I'm able to tell them to
leave her alone with a protective prayer I learned years ago.
I don't know, maybe the problem is that she
just doesn't want to leave inspite of the increasing deafness,
loss of sight, etc. It really is depressing to watch her decline
to tell the truth. So thanks so much for this post which is the
answer to a question put out by my heart to the higher worlds
about a little dog I came to love way,way too much. :-(
paulina
.............................................................................................................................
From: golden3000997
Date: Tue Dec 2, 2003 3:40 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: The Nature of Animals
Hi Paulina,
You have my total sympathy. I'm not mature
at all about the idea of any of my little ones crossing over.
I don't have human children and I think I just couldn't bear
it if I did and something happened to one of them! No maturity
at all - just a big blubbering mess!
BUT - despite all that, I really do know that
they go on. And I don't think of these kinds of "salamanders"
- let's call them Fire Spirits - are like the elemental spirits
commonly found in nature. I think they are akin to them, they
live in the sphere of warmth, but it is a special kind of warmth
- a warmth engendered only where love exists between animals
and humans. I believe that they are not amorphous, but retain
their "personalities" and are recognizable to
the ones they love and who have loved them.
Oh, I wish you could watch "The Pet Psychic".
She used to be on Animal Planet on Monday nights, but then they
said they were moving her to a daytime slot. I don't have any
cable right now, so I can't find out what is happening. I taped
a couple of her programs, but I wish I had them all. She is absolutely
emphatic about both animals and people crossing over exactly
when they are meant to. Even if the human
companion has to put the animal companion "to sleep"
this is usually the right thing and meant to be and the animals
she has spoken with thank their humans for releasing them. Other
pets come to them just as people we love who have gone before
come to us. Several times she spoke of other people
who the humans knew being there with the pet on the other side.
Absolutely remarkable, the way she speaks. Nothing fuzzy, remote
or generalized about it. Totally specific references and impossible
for even a production company with a huge budget to have researched
so extensively. She is totally down to earth and direct. In one
part of her show, she interacts with the animals in an audience
setting; another part, she works with grieving humans there in
the studio (usually three per show); and the third part is where
she goes to many different places (pet sanctuaries, homes, etc.)
and works with particular questions, usually behavior problems
that the humans haven't been able to figure out.
Like I said before, there is nothing atavistic
or medium-like about her - just a total gift. Really one from
the future, I think. One of the faculties in fairy tales which
come from the atavistic past but have to be renewed through concious
love is the ability to speak with animals. I think flying (levitating)
is another such faculty.
Yes, these little ones are our "children"
in a sense. We take them on freely, at least where there is love.
And we give them our hearts and they give us theirs. And love,
in all its many forms and expression, is Eternal.
As Sonya says "Animals are Forever."
: )
Peace to your heart now and at the crossing,
Christine
.............................................................................................................................
From: golden3000997
Date: Tue Dec 2, 2003 3:41 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: The Nature of Animals
PS
about a little dog I came to love way,way
too much. :-(
NEVER TOO MUCH!!!! : )
.............................................................................................................................
From: golden3000997
Date: Tue Dec 2, 2003 7:39 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: The Nature of Animals
Very cool Paulina!! : )
I think it's important that we check things
out before making assumptions. Everything is very complex, the
material and the spiritual world, and not everything fits neatly
into slots. We need to understand the construct, but use it as
a springboard to be able to see outside the box. There are literally
millions of things in the world that did not exist in 1925 when
RS died. He couldn't simply see them all and say AB and C are
going to happen. He said himself that Waldorf Education is the
perfect system for the 5th Post Atlantean epoch, but it wouldn't
do at all for the 6th. The directive I value most from him as
an educator and indeed, as a person simply trying to live in
these times is to OBSERVE and take it from that as a starting
point. We can't observe if we pre-judge and refuse to look.
Not trying to be "preachy" - I've
just watched "The Matrix" - thanks to Michael H's mention
of it in one of his posts and my infinite suseptibility to the
power of suggestion!
I really want to analyse it and analyse it!
Part of me says, I want to get to reality, SEE REALITY, but my
real self, the woosie says "Let me out of here! I don't
want to see anything!" I'm going to find a nice quiet cave
somewhere and wait until it all blows over. Unfortunately for
Tarjei, who said that he wanted to wait for a nice long time
between incarnations and come back when Ahriman had come and
gone, he is already here and it's too late to turn back now.
I think it's definitely the time to "head for the hills"
as the Bible says!
By the way, I watched "The Education
of Little Tree" last night. Wonderful film. All about the
same thing, really, but from a 1930s point of view. The battle
for Truth is still there. But MUCH nicer scenery!!!
: ) Christine
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From: golden3000997
Date: Tue Dec 2, 2003 7:39 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: The Nature of Animals
OH, PS - but wasn't Whoopi Goldberg wonderful
as a medium in "Ghost"?!
LOL Christine
.............................................................................................................................
To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
From: eyecueco
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 03:06:23 -0000
Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: The Nature of Animals
--- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com,
golden3000997 wrote:
Oh, I wish you could watch "The Pet
Psychic". She used to be on Animal Planet on Monday nights,
but then they said they were moving her to a daytime slot.
Actually, I stumbled arcoss this woman just
this year on Animal Planet, and after watching her several times
decided there is something special going on wth her.
Don't quit know what to make if it as I am
a skeptic when it comes to contact with the deceased and feel
strongly with Steiner that most of such messages involve elementals
playing around with astral shells left behind, but the pet psychic
just blows me away.
Wonder if she isn't a soul with a special
mission having to do with humanity developing a deeper conscious
awareness of animals spoken about by Steiner?
I'm a believer in this woman, for sure.
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