The Divine Feminine

From: golden3000997
Date: Sat Nov 8, 2003 6:53 am
Subject: The Divine Feminine

Dear Dottie,

We are still not seeing eye to eye (one of us must be from Iowa!) but that's OK. However, I want to make a few things clear in the following segment of our discussion.

Christine

Anyway, this to illustrate the male/female unity of God and the manifestation of God as male and female on the physical plane. Why then interpret the Trinity as God the Father, God the Son (Sun - shouldn't really be male in a strict sense, but another topic) and God the Holy Spirit and interpret this as a "He"? It is the Holy Spirit which INCARNATES the LOGOS or Sun of God, and through whom did He incarnate in the physical? And who was specifically present in the upper room at Pentecost with the disciples? I have some pictures somewhere around here of Mary in the middle of the circle as they receive the flame above their heads - most rosary pictures have it that way. Again, SHE brings it down into them. SHE IS the manifestation of the Divine Female. And not just ONE Mary - but THREE Marys.

Dottie

I am wondering if you see Magdalene sitting to the left of Jesus at the last Supper? Do you see her in the room? Have you ever seen the painting, don't know whose it is, where the finger of God reaches out and touches the finger of man? Up until this year I thought that was the whole painted picture. It is not. Under the bridge of a place I drive past is a mural of the whole picture or at least what I can feel is the whole picture: God with his arms enfolding a woman and a child. Incredible.

There is a book called Crone, don't recall the author at the moment, that really allowed me to move further on my search for the Marys' mystery. It was there that I was able to connect the symbolism of the three Marys. And they can be found throughout history of the OT as well as Hindu/Buddist/Sumerian texts.

Christine

But I see Mary Magdalene as the third in the Female Trinity of God.

******** Please make note that I am not saying that MARY MAGDELENE is the female element in the Trinity. I am saying that the Holy Spirit is in its essence, the Divine Female and that it Manifests as a feminine trinity - Eva Maria, the soul force of the Heart - Maria Sophia, the soul force of the Head - Maria Magdelena, the soul force of the Will. The MARY in the upper room, actually was an incarnation of all three. The physical body of the EVA Maria was already bearing the Ego of the Maria Sophia within her (see The Gospel of St. Luke - Rudolf Steiner) Even though Mary Magdelene was in the body still, supposedly, I personally feel that her Ego was somehow melded with the other two, although I may not be able to justify this with something in writing. Through the power of the MARY as TRINITY of the Female Divine, the Holy Spirit (The Comforter) was incarnated in human kind for all eternity. I believe that Steiner did say once that the mysteries of the feminine would be explored by someone who would come after him, that it wasn't necessarily his task. I'll try to find that reference.

Of course, there have been "pre-Christian" manifestations of the Female Divine, just as there were "pre-Christian" manifestations of the Christ as Sun God. Please make clear note - I am saying MANIFESTATION - NOT INCARNATION!!! There have never been and never will be any other INCARNATIONs of the Christ.

(sorry for the caps, I am not shouting, but when I "bold" or italic, it doesn't come through and I want to emphasis. My browser does not support HTML and I can't write properly.

Dottie

I see her there as well. For me she is the Daughter Voice of God. Never really thought of it being the third but it makes sense if we look at mother father child.

Christine
She was the one who first saw the Risen Christ. There were three Marys accounted for at the foot of the cross, also.

ALSO - Dottie you said this:

But what does that really mean? See for me, my work is leading me to find the Father and I think the Father is the physical reality and that is why we are all male and female. I think that is what Magdalene meant when she said

'he is going to make males of us all' ( meaning Christ)...

to me that means they are all going to become Suns or rayers of God. I believe the female part of us is the spirit. Therefore we, as human beings are all male and female.

Please tell me WHERE she says that!!! Is it in the BIBLE?? If so, Please give me the chapter and verse - I really want to see it for myself. Doesn't ring a bell at all. In fact, I don't recall any quotes of her at all except when she meets The Risen Christ and asks him where he put her teacher (rabbi).

This is really, really important to me, so please find me that quote. Thank you!

: ) Christine

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From: dottie zold
Date: Sat Nov 8, 2003 7:28 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Divine Feminine

--- golden3000997 wrote:

Dear Dottie,

We are still not seeing eye to eye (one of us must be from Iowa!) but that's OK. However, I want to make a few things clear in the following segment of our discussion.

Dear Christine,

Yes we are. I just don't express my understandings very well. They ALL line up with what you have found.

In the Nag Hammadi Library there is a book called Mary. You shall find it there. As well it is quite interesting to read Philip and the Voice of Thunder.

I have a few other thoughts I am working on, well not right now, however they tend to freak people out or whatever...anyway I think the fourth gospel is inspired by Magdalene and I believe it was SHE who was raised under the cover of Lazarus, which means the one whom God helps.

You have such a greater way of expressin than I. I don't know why I can not pull it down into the written word. It stays within me and comes out pretty jumbled. I remember another list mate who said that I am stuck in one of the three levels that Dr. STeiner states we come with in our soul. I seem not to be able, and truly I think he was right, that there seems to be NO WAY I can overcome this way of being. I have come to see that my mind just does not connect things in an intellectual manner. No matter how much study I think. I would almost have to rewire my brain it seems.

You are right on Christine. Do you find many people who agree with you? Also I am wondering if you can share, because I think it is important to lay the groundwork for others, how you came upon such a thing. Unless it is too personal however, I have to say it is really important just as Steiners work is for this to throw a light on this path.

Love to you always,

Dottie

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From: golden3000997
Date: Sat Nov 8, 2003 9:26 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Divine Feminine

Hi Dottie!

Do you recognize my cheeky "from Iowa" dig? It's from the "Music Man" - line about two Iowans standing nose to nose for a week and "never see eye to eye." I was trying to make a funny! As Red Skelton (my personal saint) once or twice said, "Don't take life too seriously - none of us are getting out of it alive." : )

We do need to lighten up a little bit now and then.

I have been madly researching in the Bible for that line by Mary Magdalene - so it's in the Nag Hammadi??? I'll start looking there.

There are levels and levels to understanding all of this. Thank you for the compliments, but your understanding is just fine. As someone said in another post, on another Steiner group, it is so different to try to communicate through this medium than to study something in person with a group. There is so much communication that goes on at other levels. On the other hand, by having to express ourselves in writing, we might make a few ideas more clear than we had expressed before.

I totally agree that we need to act out of love always if we have the strength to do so. One on one interaction involves the meeting of egos and that is far beyond group, religious or nationalistic identities. Communication is essential and bridges must be built. But just as there are Angels and then Archangels and Archai, so there are individuals and then larger groups and movements and then Spirits of the Time which can and do sweep up individuals in their path. The trick I think, is to try to perceive these larger entities, the good and the bad and the truth about them.

What I was saying when I sounded so "fire and brimstone" about making choices is that we, as individuals may find ourselves in the not very distant future being called upon to make choices that align us with one or more of these larger entities. What I meant was that, even if we find ourselves so caught up that we must succumb to their demands (microchips, etc) that we need to still be able to know inside who and what we are dealing with, not go into it all blindly. We may not be able to resist physically, but we can resist spiritually.

Many have been put into prison in the past for telling the truth about a government or religion and have remained free inside themselves. Yes, I believe the time is at hand when many lightworkers and truth tellers will go there again, possibly to suffer and die. But they, including perhaps us, must stay free inside. We must never surrender the truth. We must never give evil the name of good.

And yes, Frank, if you are reading this - I mean the Waldorf movement, too. The seeds of human freedom which it seeks to plant, nurture and guard in each human child are very dangerous to the forces in the world today. As long as it remains quiet and acquiescent to the state, it will be allowed to continue. But the state, contrary to popular belief, is not stupid. They know very well who we are. And now, the American movement has made the unbelievably stupid mistake of getting into bed with the public (state) school system! Let's just go ahead and marry the executioner, why don't we?? PLANS is absolutely right about their position that Waldorf Education has no place in the public school system and that Waldorf educators should be honest and upfront with all parents about the Anthroposophy and Christianity that lives within it. I am not concerned with the forum that is running on it about whether or not RS was connected with the Nazis, that's another subject entirely. But Waldorf education in state schools has two things wrong with it - Waldorf teachers are inherently limited in what they can say and do, even though they may have more freedom in the classroom than other public school teachers and Waldorf education has been put under the gaze of the power system at large. It's not that what we do in a Waldorf classroom is or should be secret - far from it. But it should be done in total freedom and independence from any other controlling factor. And only those parents and families who understand it honestly and as fully as possible should participate. Sometimes withholding truth can be as bad as a direct lie. That's what I meant, Frank.

I have a manuscript which I will either type or try to scan that addresses the revolutionary aspect of Waldorf Education. I intend to send it to you in entirety. In the meantime, I will say that the bit about the Threefold Social Order being on the table at Versailles was told to me and six other teacher trainees in 1977-78 by Rene Querido. If it's not true, I want to know why he told us. The manuscript that I am working on supports it, but does not state it exactly. I will keep researching. If you can, please tell me why you said that it never happened.

One more thing about public education, and that is money. I think many people only consider it as one little neighborhood school with well intentioned people doing the best they can for a city's children. That is true, of course, but there is much more to it. Public education means lots and lots of money for those in power. You think there's not enough money for schools today? Children are hard pressed to have the essentials? Last year, I think, here in Miami, the head of the school board was fired for corruption and walked away with a $2,000,000.00+ severance package!!! And in the States, many if not all states run a lottery that pulls in billions and billions. Here in Florida it was packaged to the public as a means expressly to help improve the schools. Promises were made before the legislation was passed promising that it would be devoted to public education in addition to tax funding and not instead. Well, tax money for education has been reduced and lottery money used instead. But there is still no evidence of money being used in the quantities currently generated by the lottery. I have never seen any accounting of where that money goes. I would like to see it on a yearly basis, with a dollar by dollar breakdown. In fact, I'm going to see if I can find it on the Net. Florida has a lousy report card. 40 out of 50 ain't bad, I guess - but where does the money go??????????????

States Ranked: Smartest to Dumbest
The smartest state in the union is Massachusetts.
The dumbest, for the second consecutive year, is New Mexico.
These are the findings of the Education State Rankings, a survey by Morgan Quitno Press of the public school systems in all 50 states. States were graded on a variety of factors based on how they compare to the national average. These included such positive attributes as per-pupil expenditures, public high school graduation rates, average class size, student reading and math proficiency, and pupil-teacher ratios. States received negative points for high drop-out rates and physical violence.

How does YOUR state rank?
1. Massachusetts
2. Vermont
3. Connecticut
4. Montana
5. New Jersey
6. Maine
7. Pennsylvania
8. (tie) Wisconsin and Iowa
10. New York
11. Nebraska
12. Minnesota
13. Indiana
14. Wyoming
15. Kansas
16. Rhode Island
17. Virginia
18. Maryland
19. Delaware
20. Michigan
21. North Carolina
22. Ohio
23. Alaska
24. North Dakota
25. Utah
26. New Hampshire
27. Illinois
28. Missouri
29. West Virginia
30. Idaho
31. South Dakota
32. Oregon
33. Washington
34. Texas
35. Colorado
36. Georgia
37. Kentucky
38. Arkansas
39. Oklahoma
40. Florida
41. South Carolina
42. Tennessee
43. Hawaii
44. California
45. Arizona
46. Alabama
47. Louisiana
48. Mississippi
49. Nevada
50. New Mexico

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From: Frank Thomas Smith
Date: Sat Nov 8, 2003 9:33 am
Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Divine Feminine

In the Nag Hammadi Library there is a book called Mary. You shall find it there. As well it is quite interesting to read Philip and the Voice of Thunder.

Also The Gospel of Thomas, verse 114: Simon Peter said to them, "Make Mary (Magdalene) leave us, for females don't deserve life." Jesus said, "Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that she too can become a living spirit resembling you males. For every femaile who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven."

But don't worry too much, the meaning is ambiguous and most unclear, to say the least. It may have to do with being androgynous, or some kind of gnostic code
Frank

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From: golden3000997
Date: Sat Nov 8, 2003 9:53 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Divine Feminine

Thanks Frank!

Whoa, something good to chew on there! I have that somewhere on my shelves, I think. Maybe I can find it on the Net. Can't reconcile it with other texts, though.

Did you see my bit on public education? Still working on it for you, though.

: ) Christine

By the way, the company I work for here in Miami has a branch in Buenos Aires. Real belly of the beast stuff! Won't say what just now. I am still trying to figure it out. I have only been there 2 months.

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From: Richard Distasi
Date: Sat Nov 8, 2003 10:15 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Divine Feminine

"Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that she too can become a living spirit resembling you males. For every femaile who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven."

Just a stab in the dark here but this may be a reference to a possible transfiguration of the etheric body of Mary Magdalene. That is, her etheric body is male and that Christ heightens its awareness such that she was then to become the first person to perceive the Risen Etheric Christ.

rick distasi

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From: dottie zold
Date: Sat Nov 8, 2003 4:39 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Divine Feminine

Hey Rick,

Where is this quote from? I hope its not the same one from the Nag Hammadi book of Mary. I am wondering if anyone knows if this book found of Mary is different than the one found in the late 1800s? I just read there was a book of Mary found during that time period. Don't know the specifices though or the validity of such a thing.

The Sufi women as well were called male but that was in reference to Master.

I still don't understand the etheric things so much. I can't seem to really really rap my mind around it.

Peace,
Dottie

--- Richard Distasi wrote:

"Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that she too can become a living spirit resembling you males. For every femaile who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven."

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From: Richard Distasi
Date: Sun Nov 9, 2003 1:57 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Divine Feminine

Dottie,

The quote that I posted of which you ask was posted by Frank Thomas Smith in an earlier message. That one sentence really got my attention. Here is what Frank posted:

Also The Gospel of Thomas, verse 114: Simon Peter said to them, "Make Mary (Magdalene) leave us, for females don't deserve life." Jesus said, "Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that she too can become a living spirit resembling you males. For every femaile who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven."

rick distasi

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From: Frank Thomas Smith
Date: Sun Nov 9, 2003 5:07 am
Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Divine Feminine


Dottie wrote:

The Sufi women as well were called male but that was in reference to Master.

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From: Frank Thomas Smith
Date: Sun Nov 9, 2003 5:58 am
Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Divine Feminine

Christine wrote:

And yes, Frank, if you are reading this - I mean the Waldorf movement, too. The seeds of human freedom which it seeks to plant, nurture and guard in each human child are very dangerous to the forces in the world today. As long as it remains quiet and acquiescent to the state, it will be allowed to continue. But the state, contrary to popular belief, is not stupid. They know very well who we are. And now, the American movement has made the unbelievably stupid mistake of getting into bed with the public (state) school system! Let's just go ahead and marry the executioner, why don't we?? PLANS is absolutely right about their position that Waldorf Education has no place in the public school system and that Waldorf educators should be honest and upfront with all parents about the Anthroposophy and Christianity that lives within it. I am not concerned with the forum that is running on it about whether or not RS was connected with the Nazis, that's another subject entirely. But Waldorf education in state schools has two things wrong with it - Waldorf teachers are inherently limited in what they can say and do, even though they may have more freedom in the classroom than other public school teachers and Waldorf education has been put under the gaze of the power system at large. It's not that what we do in a Waldorf classroom is or should be secret - far from it. But it should be done in total freedom and independence from any other controlling factor. And only those parents and families who understand it honestly and as fully as possible should participate. Sometimes withholding truth can be as bad as a direct lie. That's what I meant, Frank.

Okay, Christine, I thought you meant that Waldorf schools hide what anthroposophy really is, in respect ot reincanation, the spirit, religiosity, the Nazi accusation, etc. As far as the relation of schools (Waldorf and others) to the state, I agree with you. In my experience, most W-teachers haven't the vaguest idea of what the Threefold concept entails: autonomous schools, free from state control. And many of those few who do realize it are afraid to mention it. When the Sra. Inspectora comes they fall all over themselves kissing her ass. The one course I still teach in the teachers training school in Buenos Aires is called Ecologia social, for want of a better name, I guess. It's 50% threefold society and 50% organzation development and group dynamics. In the first part I try to hammer into their young heads that W-schools should be models of state-free schools. Much nodding of heads, even applause, though I suspect they forget it once in teaching activity. Anecdote: A few months ago a new inspector came to our little school here in the wilderness, very nice woman, most enthusistic about what she saw. I told her we're thinking of withdrawing our request for state approval, because we're not able to comply with the stupid burocratic requirements and their costs. She agreed with our criticism, but said it would be a mistake to break off because the parents, espedcially new ones, woudn't understand that. Also, after the 6th grade (end of primary school here) the kids would still have to take a state exam to enter high school. (Two good arguments which we were well aware of.) She also said she would do all possible to obtain approval. Fine, we went along, but nothing has changed because not even she can shake the bureaucracy. Now we are thinking of changing to a cooperative, with the teachers as members, not employees, and kiss the Ministerio de Educacion goodbye. But the teachers themselves are afraid of this.

I have a manuscript which I will either type or try to scan that addresses the revolutionary aspect of Waldorf Education. I intend to send it to you in entirety. In the meantime, I will say that the bit about the Threefold Social Order being on the table at Versailles was told to me and six other teacher trainees in 1977-78 by Rene Querido. If it's not true, I want to know why he told us. The manuscript that I am working on supports it, but does not state it exactly. I will keep researching. If you can, please tell me why you said that it never happened.

Steiner spoke with various high ranking German politicians, and wrote memorandums, trying to convince them that Germany offer the threefold society as a post-war (I) alternative at peace negotiations. Although some seemed well disposed to the idea, nothing happened and it never reached Versailles. (Lindenberg - "Rudolf Steiner-Eine Biographie" and elsewhere). Why Querido may have said something different, I don't know.

Frank

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From: Frank Thomas Smith
Date: Sun Nov 9, 2003 6:38 am
Subject: RV: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Divine Feminine

Dottie:
That may also be the solution here: male=master=teacher.
Frank

Dottie wrote:

The Sufi women as well were called male but that was in reference to Master.

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From: dottie zold
Date: Sun Nov 9, 2003 6:56 am
Subject: Re: RV: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Divine Feminine

Hey Frank,

I found the quote I was looking for. Well at least one of them. I will share it once I have had my morning coffee. The point for me is that Magdalene said Christ would make THEM all males. Not just her. While reading Genesis by Steiner I found it to mean 'rayers of the Sun'/God. I will find that reference as well but it goes along the idea that in the beginning there was a raying out and a raying in of sorts within a certain boundary(not boundary but I guess I have the idea of egg when I see this so it does seem to have some kind of closed surrounding in a way.

I don't think it has anything to do with males in the sense of male as in male/man versus female/woman on a physical level. However I can not tell if maybe Rick is onto something because I do not understand the etheric real well. (no matter how many times it has been explained to me). I understand it in the manner of a part of my existance and supposedly in the end when I make the transition it shall seperate. But exactly what it holds I am unsure other than it is more closely united with the body than before. And that I can see.

Good Morning?
Dottie

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From: dottie zold
Date: Sun Nov 9, 2003 9:12 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Divine Feminine

Hi Christine, Rick and Frank,

The Gospel of Mary is only four pages or so long. This quote is when the brothers have become bereaved with the departure of Christ. This one doesn't state it in the 'make us all males' although it is similar. I couldn't find the exact quote I was looking for last night.

Gospel of Mary: How shall we go to the Gentiles and preach the gospel of the kingdom of the Son of Man? If they did not spare him how will they spare us? Then Mary stood up greeted them all and said to her brethren, "Do not weep and do not grieve nor be irresolute, for his grace will be entirely with you and will protect you. But rather let us praise his greatness, for he has prepared us and made us into men." When Mary said this, she turned their hearts to the Good, and they began to discuss the words of the Savior.

Peter said to Mary, "Sister, we know that the Savior loved you more than the rest of the women. Tell us the words which you remember - which you know but we do not nore have we heard them. Mary answered and said "What is hidden from you I will proclaim to you."

Gsopel of Phillip:

There were three who always walked with the Lord. Mary his mother and her sister and Magdalene, the one who was called his companion. His sister and his mother, and his companiion were each a Mary.

AND HERE IS SOMETHING INTERESTING THAT FOLLOWS. (MY CAPS:)

"The Father and the Son are single names. the Holy Spirit is a double name. For they are everywhere: they are above, they are below; they are in the concealed, they are revealed. The Holy Spirit is revealed: it is below. It is in the concealed: it is above.

You made a comment about Magdalene and another melted but you can not show it yet. I think it might be found in this above.

It is clear, very clear in the Nag Hammadi that Magdalene is the most loved of Christ Jesus. Philip states it, Thomas states it, Mary states it and there are others but my eyes tired of looking for them last night. This is a huge book. And it is in many pieces as is my bible. I am even missing the first three pages of Genesis due to it falling a part in my hands:)

Also in Philip:

As for Wisdom, who is called barren, she is the mother of the angels. And the companion of the Savior (is) Mary Magdalene. But Christ loved her more than all the disciples and used to kiss her ofter on her mouth. The rest of the disciples were offended by it and expressed disapproval. They said to him, " Why do you love her more than all of us? The Savior answered and said to them, "Why do I not love you like her? When a blind man and one who sees, are both in darkness, they are no different from one another. When the light comes the he who sees will see the light, and he who is blind will remain in darkness.

The Lord said "Blessed is he who is before he came into being. For he who is, h as been and shall be.

Christine, for me I have always read the bible for what was just before a passage, that rang a bell, and also that which is read after. For some reason I had not thought to read the Nag in the same manner. But today while writing this I found my self realizing what Christ is really saying in regards to the companion. I am thinking that the word consort and companion, which is usually used to explain the relationship of Christ to Sophia in the Nag, have the same meaning? Do you interpret them one and the same?

Did you know that the technical translation of Kingdom within is actually Queendom within in the original Aramaic language that Jesus spoke; Malduka. For me its like my main man was walking around calling on all to find the Queendom within:)

I am wondering if Frank or Rick might be able to point to a book within the Nag of a conversation with Mary begging the Lord to be patient with her many questions, and the men, probably my friend Peter, complaining that she is taking up too much time because they can't seem to get a question in edgewise? It is in one of these that Mary makes the statement of making us all males.

I am finding it interesting that they called Salt, Sophia. It makes me think on my question of the story about ?(can't remember her name at the moment) turning to a pillar of Salt. It looks like she lost out in living yet she had no part of the fornication that took place between father and daughters.

Interesting for me for I found seven women while looking for pillars in an art piece that called to mind Pillars of Faith.

Happy Sunday,

dottie

Christine wrote:

Please tell me WHERE she says that!!! Is it in the BIBLE?? If so, Please give me the chapter and verse - I really want to see it for myself. Doesn't ring a bell at all. In fact, I don't recall any quotes of her at all except when she meets The Risen Christ and asks him where he put her teacher (rabbi).

This is really, really important to me, so please find me that quote. Thank you!

: ) Christine

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From: golden3000997
Date: Sun Nov 9, 2003 9:34 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Divine Feminine

Hi Dottie et al!

Cool Stuff, this Internet Thing!!!

Been doing lots of reading, researching, getting Mary pictures for you Dottie! Look at the highlight below, I'll emphasis it, in case the Bold doesn't work.

Here is the link:

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl.html

Cut and pasted from a search on the site above:

Search = Mary

Search Result
The (Second) Apocalypse of James -- The Nag Hammadi Library
The (Second) Apocalypse of James, from The Nag Hammadi Library. This site includes the entire Nag Hammadi Library, as well as a large collection of other primary Gnostic scriptures and documents.
relative of his. He said, "Hasten! Come with Mary, your wife, and your relatives
The Gospel of Philip -- The Nag Hammadi Library

The Gospel of Philip, from The Nag Hammadi Library. This site includes the entire Nag Hammadi Library, as well as a large collection of other primary Gnostic scriptures and documents.

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Some said, "Mary conceived by the Holy Spirit." They are in error. They do not know what they are saying. When did a woman ever conceive by a woman? Mary is the

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There were three who always walked with the Lord: Mary, his mother, and her sister, and companion were each a Mary.

angels. And the companion of the [...] Mary Magdalene. [...] loved her more than all the
The Sophia of Jesus Christ -- The Nag Hammadi Library
The Sophia of Jesus Christ, from The Nag Hammadi Library. This site includes the entire Nag Hammadi Library, as well as a large collection of other primary Gnostic scriptures and documents.
Mary said to him: "Lord, then how will we know that?"

Mary said to him: "Holy Lord, where did your disciples come from, and where are

The Gospel of Thomas Collection -- Translations and Resources
The Gospel of Thomas in multiple translations, along with a vast collection of material about the Thomas tradition. This site includes the entire Hammadi Library, as well as a large collection of other primary Gnostic scriptures and documents.
21. Mary said to Jesus, "What are your disciples like?"

114. Simon Peter said to them, "Make Mary leave us, for females don't deserve Gospel of Thomas (Lambdin Translation) -- The Nag Hammadi Library The Gospel of Thomas in multiple translations, along with a vast collection of material about the Thomas tradition. This site includes the entire Hammadi Library, as well as a large collection of other primary Gnostic scriptures and documents.
(21) Mary said to Jesus, "Whom are your disciples like?"

(114) Simon Peter said to him, "Let Mary leave us, for women are not worthy of

The Dialogue of the Savior -- The Nag Hammadi Library
The Dialogue of the Savior, from The Nag Hammadi Library. This site includes the entire Nag Hammadi Library, as well as a large collection of other primary Gnostic scriptures and documents.
Mary said, "Lord, behold! Whence do I bear the body while I weep, and whence while

Mary hailed her brethren, saying, "Where are you going to put these things about

Then he [...] Judas and Matthew and Mary [...] the edge of heaven and earth.
And when Mary said, "[...] see evil [...] them from the first [...] each other.

Mary said, "Thus with respect to 'the wickedness of each day,' and 'the laborer is

Mary said, "Tell me, Lord, why I have come to this place to profit or to Mary said to him, "Lord, is there then a place which is [...] or lacking truth?"
Mary said, "Lord, you are fearful and wonderful, and [...] those who do not know

Mary said, "I want to understand all things, just as they are!"
Mary said, "Everything established thus is seen."

Mary said, "There is but one saying I will speak to the Lord concerning the

Mary said, "Of what sort is that mustard seed? Is it something from heaven or is Mary said, "They will never be obliterated."
Mary said to the Lord, "When the works [...] which dissolve a work."

Introduction to the Nag Hammadi Library through James and through Mary Magdalene [who the Gnostics revered as consort to Jesus]. disciple had been a woman, Mary Magdalene, his consort. The Gospel of Philip "...the companion of the Savior is Mary Magdalene. But Christ loved her more than

The Testimony of Truth -- The Nag Hammadi Library
The Testimony of Truth, from The Nag Hammadi Library. This site includes the entire Nag Hammadi Library, as well as a large collection of other primary Gnostic scriptures and documents.
the world through a virgin, Mary. What is (the meaning of) this mystery? John was begotten
Gospel of Thomas - Patterson & Robinson Translation -- Nag Hammadi Library
The Gospel of Thomas in multiple translations, along with a vast collection of material about the Thomas tradition. This site includes the entire Hammadi Library, as well as a large collection of other primary Gnostic scriptures and documents.
(1) Mary said to Jesus: "Whom are your disciples like?"
(1) Simon Peter said to them: "Let Mary go away from us, for women are not worthy of

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32 matches.

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From: dottie zold
Date: Sun Nov 9, 2003 6:10 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Divine Feminine

Dear Christine,

You are pretty amazing!

I would like to know if you could slow down just a second and look at some of the questions I have for you?

I have been following this for three years and finally found someone who speaks my language regarding Magdalene. There is much more of her to be found regarding the mystery of ChristSophia.

Do you have time to look at some of the questions? I thought I moved fast, whew:) Its funny what inspiration will do 'ey?

So, do you recall how you came to this? Where did your inspiration of the Holy Spirit as feminine originate? What books have you read that have led you to this? Have you thought about Magdalene as the inspirant for the Fourth Gospel and that of The Voice of Thunder? Has it ever occurred to you that Christ initiated Magdlaene and not a man called Lazarus? Do you see her at the table before Christ sacrificed? Do you see her with Christ at the end of John? Do you see Judas as forgiven symbolically through the acceptance of Paul? Where are your inspirations regarding Mary through the house?

Had Dr. Steiner inspired you to the Mary mystery? If so, what books?

Some of the questions I have asked may not seem credible or whatever, however there are a few things I am working on and they are not clear to me yet. But I am very interested in the Mary questions?

Could you make some time for these? What did you think of the passage directly following the 'men' remark in Phillip? Do you intuit anything from that?

What age were you when you started to really click with the Mary mystery?

I know you have a lot on your plate. If you would take the time I would especially be grateful.

Admiringly,

Dottie

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From: golden3000997
Date: Sun Nov 9, 2003 6:49 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Divine Feminine


Hi Dottie!

I'm going to paste all this on a word document, then hit the books for answers. The two Jesus children, along with the 2 Josephs & 2 Marys were what got me really excited in the first place (1976?) Lecture by Rene Querido (in person - Spring Valley NY Christmas conference) I liked all the cosmic stuff, but after having a bout with "born again" Christianity a few years prior (I graduated HS in 1973). I didn't want to hear anything about Jesus. Then that lecture - WOW!

I still think it is the most REVOLUTIONARY concept in all of Anthrop, at least in the sense of Christology. It is such an open secret - and a terrific way to get Jehovah's Witnesses off your doorstep for good! ; )

Well, the 2 Marys were pretty obvious after that and Steiner's "Gospel of St. Luke" has the most beautiful illumination in my opinion. But Steiner talks about the 3 soul forces - especially in the Mystery Dramas, which were pretty hot in Spring Valley when I was there at the time. It may have been in conversation with Hans & Ruth Pusch at lunch (I used to clean their house for a while before Hans died). But I guess I just needed Mary Magdalene personally. I felt that she was the only spiritual being I knew of at the time who could understand me at the time, being the sex freak I was back then (until fairly recently). She just fit in perfectly as the Maria of the Will Soul Force. Eva Maria (the Virgin Mary in Luke) the Maria of the Heart or Feeling Soul Force. Mother Mary (Maria Sophia of the Head or Thinking Soul Force).

I went through a period of classes to become a Catholic (around 1991 or 1992 I think). Oh my God, I can just hear the Anthropops howling now!!! But I have had such very profound experiences and reaction taking the Eucharist (which I did, even though not a Catholic) and I thought I should join so that I could do that with more honesty. I also was involved during that time with a University catholic church with very progressive thinking priests (and there are radicals among them, you know - another topic altogether!). It was a very good experience, but the whirlwind of my life took me away before my joining. I also have had periods of using the rosary and with very good inward effect. Somewhere in all of that, I really came clear about Her as the Divine Feminine of the Godhead. She is the Matrix, the Bearer, the Comforter. Christ said that He would send the Comforter and He has. I have been to Conyers, GA, and even though there was a spooky element that wasn't good (totally my own perception) nevertheless SHE was there simply because all the people were there to reach up to HER. I could feel Her Presence, but not necessarily from Nancy What's Her Name. 'Nother subject.

Then there is the whole Apocalypse thing - the woman clothed with the Sun, with the Stars around her head and the moon under her feet. The patriarchal church wants us to believe that that is an image of the "church" per se, but I don't think so. It is the Goddess and they really couldn't handle that!!

I relate Mary Magdalene with the Divine Whore (oh, the howling!!!!) of the ancient mysteries. I believe that when men (male bodies to be specific) incarnated after the fall, they fell more deeply into matter than female bodies and during the Babylon/ Chaldean, Sumerian, etc. times, the priestesses were "whores" in the sense that men paid money to the temple, then went into the temple and lay with a priestess. During the sex act, she filled his soul with love and life force and raised his vibration so that he could feel connected again with the world of the stars. Don't ask me where this comes from, my own vision I guess, but probably lots of different things I've read over the years. But I did have a very real and very profound clairvoyant perception of myself in Atlantis after I had made love with someone who is a friend now (this was about seven years ago) and I actually felt in Spirit what sex was like back then - NOTHING could ever compare today with the unity of souls in the star world!!!! Well, we can't go back again, but Oh boy, was it amazing!!!

I think that Mary Magdalene was in a way the last in the line of sacred whores. Her whole Ego from the past and bodily experience during the Incarnation of Christ brought this into line with the I AM. Through the Christ it was transformed into the power to heal the Will Element of the female soul force. Mind you, I am talking about Archetypes of Male & Female, not whether an individual is a man or woman. We are all both. Manifestations of Karma has some really funny passages about this!! : )

Anyway, I'm going to get tied to the stake for all of this, I'm sure, but it lives within me and I don't have anyone in my life to share it with, so your asking is bound to unlock the floodgates!

I will try to get some good sources for you. I don't really know how much of RS you have already studied and in what areas - there is so much to try to explore!! If you haven't read "St. Luke", I highly recommend it!

More later!

Luv,
Christine : )

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From: dottie zold
Date: Sun Nov 9, 2003 7:10 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Divine Feminine

Hey Christine,

Thanks so much for answering me so quickly:) There is more that needs to be explored so hopefully the floodgates will be opened.

I don't see Magdalene nor the other priestess as 'whores'. I believe that is man made. And I do believe it did disinegrate at some point but I do not feel she was a part of that. I believe the Voice of Thunder speaks to that.

She came to me as well. And it completely freaked me out. She came as me, and I physically batted her away. I didn't understand and it left me in tears as to 'why me', who am I to experience such a thing'. I have been searching ever more so since that day. I usually get rushes I call the Burning Bush :) in December and then again at Easter. This year it happened also right on St. Johns Day. Didn't know it was his day until I questioned what was happening. It was like a seven day period of inspirations.

I have an amazing book that speaks to the issue of 'holy whores'...and actually I had done some research, little, about the word harlot, it actually was a reference to a vagabond man. Had nothing to do with a woman. Anyway, I have no issue with Magdalene being a prostitute if indeed she was, however I don't find this to be true. The kissing on the mouth also is the way knowledge/initiation was expressed from what I can tell.

Its funny when you said she came to you. Its interesting because you can really sense her. She's so readily available to be experienced or maybe she is so ready to share to those who are open to her. And you know its her. Its pretty clear.

Good. I found it was the Fifth Gospel that really put John the Baptist and Magdalene in perspective for me and also the two Mary mothers. Although I must say that I have a little theory about one of those mothers. Still kicking it around though.

I have read quite a bit of Steiner. Maybe forty or fifty or more books. Feel pretty connected to his spirit although I am not your usual Steiner student. And that's an understatement.

Thanks, Christine

Dottie

p.s. btw Aminah was not the daughter of Muhammed, she was his mother:)

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From: Richard Distasi
Date: Sun Nov 9, 2003 10:22 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Divine Feminine

Dottie,

It should be noted that Steiner has made known to us that when the disciple who Jesus loved is mentioned the Gospel is pointing to the fact that this is an initiate that Christ Jesus has initiated. You may have already stressed this in your past posts so if I'm repeating something already mentioned and noted by you please excuse me.

The one passage that I find intriguing is that these passages speak of making Mary Magdalene into a male. Does it mean that she is taught certain things and initiated to a certain degree that she is now respected as a Rabbi or Teacher?

rick distasi

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From: Richard Distasi
Date: Sun Nov 9, 2003 11:42 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Divine Feminine

Christine wrote in regard to the two Jesus infants:

I still think it is the most REVOLUTIONARY concept in all of Anthrop, at least in the sense of Christology. It is such an open secret - and a terrific way to get Jehovah's Witnesses off your doorstep for good! ; )

I absolutely agree. I was stunned when I read this from Steiner and it was this very revelation that put me over the top in uniting myself with Anthroposophy. I thought that the fact that Christ and Jesus were separate was radical enough; the two Jesus infants/children was a shocking revelation for me.

As far as Jehovah's Witnesses: I had a couple of them come to my door once. I confronted them with some of the material from Anthroposophy and they were stupefied. They had no response. One even wanted to get more information about Anthroposophy.

rick distasi

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From: golden3000997
Date: Mon Nov 10, 2003 4:53 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Divine Feminine

Good Morning Rick et all!

I had two separate experiences with the Jehovah's Witnesses in California. It was really funny! You see, I don't go around and knock on other people's doors and try to sell them my belief system, but when they do that to me, I consider them "fair game."

The first time was two older ladies. Their question was "do you read the Bible?" LOL Well, I said "Certainly" and invited them in for coffee. After about 30 or 40 minutes of dissertation on the opening of the Gospel of St. John, they were (literally) backing out of my apartment, edging against the wall. "Come on Mabel." One was saying. "I think we need to go now." And of course, they never came back, which is good because they tend to be like the hobos of the depression, who used to leave a mark on the front door or gate of a house that had offered hospitality, so the other hobos would go there.

But a couple of years later, a young man came round (must have been a new recruit and didn't know the sign for "Keep Away" yet). I did the same thing and he kept saying "Come to a meeting and ask the Elders about that." I am pretty sure I was pointing out the two geneaologies to him. I told him "YOU go back to your meeting and ask the Elders about that!"

After that, they distributed maps of the area to all new recruits with my house clearly marked.

: ) Christine

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From: Richard Distasi
Date: Mon Nov 10, 2003 5:33 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Divine Feminine

Christine you wrote:

After that, they distributed maps of the area to all new recruits with my house clearly marked.

I wish I could say the same. :-)

rick distasi

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From: dottie zold
Date: Mon Nov 10, 2003 6:01 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Divine Feminine

Morning Rick,

You wrote:

It should be noted that Steiner has made known to us that when the disciple who Jesus loved is mentioned the Gospel is pointing to the fact that this is an initiate that Christ Jesus has initiated.

When you say initiate do you mean to convey that the other diciples were not, other than this one whom Jesus loved? If so I would have to say that it could be none other than the Magdalene, and that the raising of Lazarus points to that, not to mention all the comments in the Nag Hammadi referring to Jesus loving her the most and kissing her on the mouth and so forth. As I said earlier I have seen it referenced in many places, not specifically pointing to Magdalene, that kissing on the mouth is an initiatic reference. The book I am reading on the Sufis speaks of this as well.

I don't think anyone can really say for 100 % that a thing is such and such. I can only say that in my personal studies I can not find Lazarus as a being in the manner he is discussed. I am open to it not having been Magdalene if this is the truth.

I am wondering if you are aware of any other initiatic experience to the level of the 'beloved' in the bible? Maybe it has escaped me and there is another way of looking at this Lazarus thing. When I trail the Marys I find they are indeed 'one whom God helped' in the OT as well: the sister of Moses and the woman with Elija given the rod. Its funny because it is noted by a few scholars that Muhammed made a mistake by naming the Virgin Mary as the sister of Moses. They say he confused his Marys. I say he knew 'exactly' what he was saying its just there wasn't anyone of understanding who was enlightened enough to see what he was saying.

Rick

You may have already stressed this in your past posts so if I'm repeating something already mentioned and noted by you please excuse me.

Dottie

No, I hadn't stressed it although I did mention it. This tends to get me in a bit of hot water with Christoligists. But I didn't pull this out of thin air. It came from within. I think when I saw your words this morning it made me wonder, because I am always looking for a way to be wrong about my insights, if I am onto something with Lazarus or if there is another initiative scene that could possibly

speak to the Magdalene mystery as the 'beloved'.

Rick

The one passage that I find intriguing is that these passages speak of making Mary Magdalene into a male. Does it mean that she is taught certain things and initiated to a certain degree that she is now respected as a Rabbi or Teacher?

Dottie

I think it is more than that. However, she is now called, I can't remember since when, maybe the fifties, The Apostle to The Apostles by the Catholic Church: Teacher to the Teachers. I believe Steiners Genesis speaks to the 'male' thing. I believe it may be the 'raying' out of the ...well I will find it in the book today. I believe it is the persons who are able to radiate love, Christ/Sun like, from within to without like the suns rays from above. And I believe it is said this happened during the time when we were coming into being. I believe it is what happened when the ancient sages of the day called out to the Cosmos and they heard a resounding 'yes'(my belief)returning: I believe that is the male aspect and the humans are the female aspect as the recievers. Eunichs have made themselves recievers of the 'word' so that they can become male??

I believe she is called Apostle to the Apostles for many reasons and mostly because she was able to recognize Jesus as the Christ when resssurected. She was the only one. Which brings up an interesting point of recognizing Jesus 'as' the Christ. A man was truly ressurected as one in Christ. And this is why I believe she is the inspirant for the Fourth Gospel and also the reason I see her as representing the Sophia, daughter voice of God.

My thoughts,
Dottie

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From: dottie zold
Date: Mon Nov 10, 2003 6:58 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Divine Feminine


Dear Rick,

In Genesis lecture 2 we find Dr. Steiner discussing Hashamayim and Ha'aretz. " You know that in the Bible, after the words I endeavored to sketch for you yesterday, there comes a description of one of the complexes arising our of the creative thinking of the gods. I told you that we have to picture that, as if out of cosmic memory, two comlexes arose. One was a complex which may be compared to the nature of thoughts which can arise in us, the other to our desire or will nature. The one complex contains all that drives towards outer manifestation, tends as it were to proclaim its force-hashamayim. The other complex-ha'aretz-consists of an inner activity filled with desire. Then we are told of certain qualities of this inwardly active, enlivening element, and these are indicated in the Bible with the sounds which portray their character. We are told that this inwardly active element was in a condition described as tohu wa'bohu- without form and void.To understand what is meant by tohu wa' bohu we must paint a picture of it; and we shall only succeed in this if out of our spiritual scientific knowledge we call to mind what it was that, after its passage through the Saturn, Sun and Moon stages, re-emerged and surged through space as our earth existence, as our planet earth."

...

So, we have to imagine the elements of warmth, air and water permeating and interpenetrating each other, and within them a raying out as from a centre in all directions, and this raying out would be there if we only heard the first part of the sound structure, tohu. What does the second part of the phrase signify? It expresses the very opposite of what I have just described. Bet, the sound which resemebles our B, had the character of calling forth our imagination the picture of an enormous sphere, a hollow sphere, with yourself inside it, and rays proceeding from every point inside this sphere towards the center. Thus you imagine a point in space with forces streaming out in all directions, and this is tohu; then these forces are arrested as it were by an outer spherical enclosure and turned back on themselves from every direction of space, and this is bohu."

So, this is what I mean by the raying in and out and the male and female aspect. Which also includes the planet earth as signified by the word ha'aretz and the Sun signified as the word hashamayim. Yin & Yang

Dottie

Rick

The one passage that I find intriguing is that these passages speak of making Mary Magdalene into a male. Does it mean that she is taught certain things and initiated to a certain degree that she is now respected as a Rabbi or Teacher?

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From: Richard Distasi
Date: Mon Nov 10, 2003 7:55 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Divine Feminine

Dottie:

Steiner does make mention that Christ Jesus did bring the Apostles along by stages through the different levels of Initiation so that they too were Initiates. The twelve attained the level of Imagination when the Gospels relate the scene of the walking on water. As time went on only three were able to attain Inspiration on Mount Tabor; the Transfiguration. And even here it begins to become evident that these three, Peter along with James and John ben Zebedee, were not able to fully remain conscious through this Initiation. Finally, these three were to pass through the Initiation of Intuition and it is here that they fail completely. They cannot retain consciousness. They are then unable to pass through the Event of Golgotha in spirit-consciousness with Christ: not just physically present at the Cross but rather they were to become one spiritually with Christ (in Intuition with Christ) throughout the whole event of Golgotha. They could not. Days prior to this Christ had initiated Lazarus with the intent that if His chosen Apostles could not stay with Him there would be one who could and would become the bearer of the astral body of Christ Jesus which would then become the source of the Gospel of John. This was Lazarus as Steiner had pointed out in his lectures on the Gospel of John in Hamburg, 1908. Mary Magdalene was certainly another Initiate of Christ. It was she who experienced the Risen Christ and told it to the others. I don't have anything from Steiner that addresses the level of initiation that she had achieved though the Gnostic Gospels mention her as being more advanced than the Apostles themselves. It should be noted that though Lazarus became John in name he was not John who accompanied Christ to Mt. Tabor nor was he John who slept while Christ passed through His agony in the Garden of Gethsemane. Lazarus and Mary Magdalene were brother and sister along with Martha; all three of whom were mentioned as being "loved" by Christ.

rick distasi

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From: Richard Distasi
Date: Mon Nov 10, 2003 8:22 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Divine Feminine

Dottie,

You quoted some very weighty material from Steiner's lectures on Genesis and I can appreciate the raying out and steaming back again as macrocosmic male and female principles of creation. What caught my attention was the following from Steiner:

"Thus you imagine a point in space with forces streaming out in all directions, and this is tohu; then these forces are arrested as it were by an outer spherical enclosure and turned back on themselves from every direction of space, and this is bohu."

". . .these forces are arrested . . .and turned back on themselves." Arrested by whom or what is my question. In a lecture by Steiner titled, "Man in the Light of Occultism, Theosophy and Philosophy", he speaks of Twelve World Initiators during the Sun Period who enveloped this particular cosmic sphere which now makes up our present solar system. The space that they occupied is now the space that we recognize as the twelve zodiacal constellations. They poured their World-Word into this sphere which was then taken up by Christ who at that time was a microcosmic planetary Being. Somehow, then, their forces must still be at work even if they no longer are present in these spheres, and I could not find anything from Steiner on this regard, or their forces may have been taken up by the hierarchies (Seraphim perhaps) where the streaming out of the forces of the Elohim and Spirits of Form reach their limit of expansion and are then turned back upon themselves. It is this region that is filled with the Being of Christ during the exhaling of His Being during the spring and summer, gathers the cosmic wisdom of the hierarchies and is brought back to us as it is inhaled again by the earth at this time of the year.

rick distasi

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From: dottie zold
Date: Mon Nov 10, 2003 9:58 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Divine Feminine


from Steiner:

"Thus you imagine a point in space with forces streaming out in all directions, and this is tohu; then these forces are arrested as it were by an outer spherical enclosure and turned back on themselves from every direction of space, and this is bohu."

Rick on Steiner:

". . .these forces are arrested . . .and turned back on themselves." Arrested by whom or what is my question.

Hi Rick,

Well it seems it is the elohim are are the arrestees when we re-emerge so it seems from Saturn, Sun and Moon stages.

Genesis Lecture 2

"You know that in the Bible, after the words I endeavoured to sketch for you yesterday, there comes a description of one of the complexes arising out of the creative thinking of the gods. ( I take this to mean the elohim.)

It almost seem like he is explaining the fall of Man in a sense in what I shall write below:

"I pointed out yesterday that what we call the solid conditions, namely that which offers resistance to our sense, did not exist during the Saturn, Sun and Moon stages; all that existed then were the elements of fire or warmth, gas or air, and water. Basically it was not until the planet earth stage emerged that the solid element was added to the previous elemental conditions. So that when the moment occurred that we described yesterday, of the sun beginning to split off from the earth, this was the moment when the elements of warmth, air and water began to mutually interpenetrate.

Wow....that is pretty amazing when looking at the beginning of the Earth stage. Wow. Makes me contemplate Adam & Eve and what each individual relationship was to the symbols of this re-emergence. And then the snake???? anyway,

He goes onto say:

" However, we emphasized yesterday that these elohim came over to earth evolution at the stage to which they had evolved during the Saturn, Sun and Moon evolutions. So they were in a similar situation to when you wake up and bring groups of thoughts to mind. You can contemplate these thoughts in a kind of soul/spiritual way, you can tell what they are like. You can say: 'When I wake up in the morning and recall what was previously in my mind and what I am now calling up, I can describe it'. It was approximately the same for the elohim when they said to themselves: 'let us now think creatively about what arises in our souls when we recall all that took place during the old Saturn, Sun and Moon evolutions. Let us see what it looks like when we remember it.' What it looked like was tohu wa' bohu, and could be expressed be the picture I gave you of rays streaming out from a centre into space and back again in such a way that the elements interacted in these rays of force. Thus the elohim could say, roughly: 'This is what things look like after we have brought them to this point. This is how they re-emerge.

I need to get this book you speak of below. Is that the name of it in its current form? That's pretty amazing information. It feels like it is all coming together doesn't it?

My Best,
Dottie

Rick wrote:

In a lecture by Steiner titled, "Man in the Light of Occultism, Theosophy and Philosophy", he speaks of Twelve World Initiators during the Sun Period who enveloped this particular cosmic sphere which now makes up our present solar system. The space that they occupied is now the space that we recognize as the twelve zodiacal constellations. They poured their World-Word into this sphere which was then taken up by Christ who at that time was a microcosmic planetary Being. Somehow, then, their forces must still be at work even if they no longer are present in these spheres, and I could not find anything from Steiner on this regard, or their forces may have been taken up by the hierarchies (Seraphim perhaps) where the streaming out of the forces of the Elohim and Spirits of Form reach their limit of expansion and are then turned back upon themselves. It is this region that is filled with the Being of Christ during the exhaling of His Being during the spring and summer, gathers the cosmic wisdom of the hierarchies and is brought back to us as it is inhaled again by the earth at this time of the year.

rick distasi

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From: golden3000997
Date: Mon Nov 10, 2003 5:40 pm
Subject: re: Divine Feminine


Hello Dottie, Rick & Everyone!

Home from work now and my boss let me scan that lecture I was telling you about. But you know text scans, it's going to take a lot of work, still.

In the meantime, Dottie, I started this last night and its not finished in terms of references, etc.. But I want to add it to the discussion between you and Rick.

*********
Dottie said this (still don't have this snip thing down)

I don't think anyone can really say for 100 % that a thing is such and such. I can only say that in my personal studies I can not find Lazarus as a being in the manner he is discussed. I am open to it not having been Magdalene if this is the truth.

***********
This is what I am still working on:

Dottie: Have you thought about Magdalene as the inspirant for the Fourth Gospel and that of The Voice of Thunder?

Dottie: Has it ever occurred to you that Christ initiated Magdlaene and not a man called Lazarus?

Christine: To my understanding, and I will have to look up references in RS, Lazarus was Mary Magdalene and Martha's brother. All three were very close to Jesus. I am not sure about family/ karmic connections. Will have to check. (By the way - Martha is an interesting Feminine archetype, too). So Mary Magdalene was totally involved in the initiation of her brother, Lazarus. But I think they were definitely separate Egos. Perhaps she was the female entity supporting him in his initiation. In fact, I am getting a picture of the Male/Female unity in all of the initiations and revelations!!!

Now, as I understand it, when Christ raised Lazarus, Lazarus incarnated the Ego of John the Baptist and was thereafter Lazarus/ John who was to be known as John "the one who Jesus loved". Rene pointed out to us several times that John wrote the Revelation first (If I remember correctly) and then the Gospel. He wrote the Gospel while living in a sort of exile/ seclusion on the island (Isle?) of Patmos and he was there with Mary, the Mother of God. Remember, on the cross Christ said to that John and that Mary (already the embodiment spiritually of all three) "Behold thy Mother" and "Behold thy Son". Again, she "channeled" - and I use this word very advisedly - not in the sense it is used today - she "incarnated" "brought down" the Holy Spirit into John so that he could write the most powerful, most esoteric of all the Gospels. It was really something they did together as Spiritual Beings.

So we have Mary/ Lazarus in the transformation of the Will Initiation unto death - the first Christian Initiation.

And we have Mary/ John writing the Fourth Gospel - the transformation of the Thought Initiation - the Christ Initiation of Thought. So interesting that John was BEHEADED!!!

Interesting figure of Salome/ Herodias - the full expression of the decadent whore mysteries (I kinda like the word, actually!) Ever see the opera Salome? I did in Seattle - really amazing!!)

I think, and this is just coming to me now, I may be wrong - but I am searching for the Initiation of Feeling. Somewhere it has to be involved with the EVA Maria - the Virgin Mary - the tranformation of the Feeling Initiation. Where is John/ Lazarus?? I keep "seeing" the Birth Mysteries - John the Baptist leaping up in Elizabeth's womb. Maybe this is the Mystery of the Ave Maria, the Rosary, the Luke/ Shepherd story an initiation in the Feeling Soul. I have to mull that over for a while. This initiation is the one most accessible to the "common people" - the Virgin of Lourdes, of Guadaloupe, etc. This is the Virgin that bears the Sacred Heart and reaches the Heart of Mankind. (Of course all three Female Deities are one, but this is the Heart Manifestation).

Have you read Kahlil Gibran's book, "Jesus, The Son of Man" "His world and his deeds as told and recorded by those who knew him"?

http://leb.net/gibran/

This is pure poetry, not to be taken as doctrine, but it is SO beautiful!!!! The whole book is on that website. I can only read it a little at a time, because I always start crying!!! The passages "by" and about Mary Magdalene are unbelievable. Totally heart level stuff!!!

John the beloved disciple in his old age

On Jesus the Word

YOU WOULD HAVE me speak of Jesus, but how can I lure the passion-song of the world into a hollowed reed? In every aspect of the day Jesus was aware of the Father. He beheld Him in the clouds and in the shadows of the clouds that pass over the earth. He saw the

Father's face reflected in the quiet pools, and the faint print of His feet upon the sand; and He often closed His eyes to gaze into the Holy Eyes.

The night spoke to Him with the voice of the Father, and in solitude He heard the angel of the Lord calling to Him.

And when He stilled Himself to sleep He heard the whispering of the heavens in His dreams.

He was often happy with us, and He would call us brothers.

Behold, He who was the first Word called us brothers, though we were but syllables uttered yesterday.

You ask why I call Him the first Word.

Listen, and I will answer:

In the beginning God moved in space, and out of His measureless stirring the earth was born and the seasons thereof.

Then God moved again, and life streamed forth, and the longing of life sought the height and the depth and would have more of itself.

Then God spoke thus, and His words were man, and man was a spirit begotten by God's Spirit.

And when God spoke thus, the Christ was His first Word and that Word was perfect; and when Jesus of Nazareth came to the world the first Word was uttered unto us and the sound was made flesh and blood.

Jesus the Anointed was the first Word of God uttered unto man, even as if an apple tree in an orchard should bud and blossom a day before the other trees. And in God's orchard that day was an aeon.

We are all sons and daughters of the Most High, but the Anointed One was His first-born, who dwelt in the body of Jesus of Nazareth, and He walked among us and we beheld Him.

All this I say that you may understand not only in the mind but rather in the spirit. The mind weighs and measures but it is the spirit that reaches the heart of life and embraces the secret; and the seed of the spirit is deathless.

The wind may blow and then cease, and the sea shall swell and then weary, but the heart of life is a sphere quiet and serene, and the star that shines therein is fixed for evermore.

Back to Jesus the Son of Man main page

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From: dottie zold
Date: Mon Nov 10, 2003 7:04 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] re: Divine Feminine

Hi Christine,

You wrote:

So Mary Magdalene was totally involved in the initiation of her brother, Lazarus. But I think they were definitely separate Egos.

Dottie

Not the way it comes to me. If you look for Lazarus in the way you looked for Magdalene I do not believe you will find him. I find nothing. And I have looked. If this is true in regards to a Lazarus one with spiritual insight should be able to access this being, I believe. I don't think one can. Lazarus means 'one whom Allah helps' my work led me to find out whom Allah helps and it is the Marys throughout. I think Magdalene was completely involved with Jesus' initiation. And I believe it is she who showed the way as being the forerunner after John (forerunner)the Baptist was beheaded which I take as the intellect surrendered to the Heart. After Johns death she did things that foretold Jesus death in her actions; washing the feet at the table as well as 'annointing' Jesus with oil for the burial.

Christine
Perhaps she was the female entity supporting him in his initiation. In fact, I am getting a picture of the Male/Female unity in all of the initiations and revelations!!!

Dottie

Well, at least it was so in that of Jesus the Christ.

Christine
Now, as I understand it, when Christ raised Lazarus, Lazarus incarnated the Ego of John the Baptist and was thereafter Lazarus/ John who was to be known as John "the one who Jesus loved". Rene pointed out to us several times that John wrote the Revelation first (If I remember correctly) and then the Gospel. He wrote the Gospel while living in a sort of exile/ seclusion on the island (Isle?) of Patmos and he was there with Mary, the Mother of God.

Dottie
I believe it was Magdalene and Mother Mary that were
on that isle if it was so.

Christine
Remember, on the cross Christ said to that John and that Mary (already the embodiment spiritually of all three) "Behold thy Mother" and "Behold thy Son".

Dottie

John was not there. I believe it was a cosmic call of the highest importance. Jesus would never have given his mother to another disciple of male orient. She had other sons. The women walked together. Mary was now male as well which could explain a small piece of the mystery. In the Nag Hammadi it is clear the boys who should have understood the mysteries on the mount were unable to as Rick has highlighted in a previous post. In the Gospel of Mary they do not believe her revelations as well.

Christine
Again, she "channeled" - and I use this word very advisedly - not in the sense it is used today - she "incarnated" "brought down" the Holy Spirit into John so that he could write the most powerful, most esoteric of all the Gospels. It was really something they did together as Spiritual Beings.

Dottie

Not that I can tell. Magdalene is the only one who comprehended Christ Jesus on the level that was needed to understand these mysteries of the heart. She is the only one to have seen him and knew it was him.

Christine
So we have Mary/ Lazarus in the transformation of the Will Initiation unto death - the first Christian Initiation.

Dottie

Do you know the translation of Miriam, Maryam,? It
means I am the sea...even unto Mir I Am.

Christine
Interesting figure of Salome/ Herodias - the full expression of the decadent whore mysteries (I kinda like the word, actually!) Ever see the opera Salome? I did in Seattle - really amazing!!)

Dottie

Salome / Peace, was there from the beginning even at the birth. I don't believe this is a part of any whore mystery or what have you. It is told that little Mary danced on the steps of the Temple and people were amazed and swayed that she was someone special. Dance is a very special form of showing the level of initiation one has achieved from what I understand. Even Jesus has danced the dance supposedly that brought his disciples into a trance like state of manifestation. I think this is what was going on. I believe Salome showed the gifts of the spirit through that dance and the men were overwhelmed. And it was the MOTHER who asked for the head.

Dear Christine,

I have to run, but I will think on the things you have written regarding the various levels of initiation in this post and another. These things take a little time for me to comprehend on a mental level.

Love to you,

Dottie

Continued in another thread

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From: Richard Distasi
Date: Tue Nov 11, 2003 3:32 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Divine Feminine

Dottie, you wrote:

I need to get this book you speak of below. Is that the name of it in its current form?

"Man in the light of Occultism, Theosophy and Philosophy" is a lecture cycle given By RSteiner in 1912. There are ten lectures to it. The lecture that I made reference to was lecture X.

To access this lecture I listed below a link to it via elib.com. It is the following:

http://wn.elib.com/Steiner/Lectures/19120612p01.html

rick distasi

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