Islam, Christianity, and Justice....
From: Tarjei Straume
Date: Thu Nov 20, 2003 3:07 pm
Subject: Islam, Christianity, and justice....
I have no doubt that the path of the Sufi
is a bona fide spiritual stream with roots in Islam that can
easily join the Anthroposophical Movement if it hasn't already
done so. But such spiritual paths are heresies, just like Anthroposophy
is a heresy in the eyes of orthodox Christians. Christian heretics
don't get executed for their crimes any more, but Muslim heretics
do. And this is one of the reasons why the vengeful and violent
hawks of the Christian Coalition have been casting admiring and
envious glances at repressive Muslim regimes for years, before
they became their sworn enemies in the aftermath of 9-11.
These Christian fundies especially loved the
meting out of justice in Muslim countries, and they bragged that
it was the most effective way to combat crime. They would like
to see life-threatening public flogging for vandalism introduced
in America. As for capital punishment, lethal injections lack
the thrill that goes right to your id, which happens when you
watch a beheading in Saudi Arabia. Besides, beheadings and amputations
don't only have the benefit of reducing crime; great swordmanship
is developed, and it must be a beauty to watch a professional
sword-wielder in action like that. Besides, decapitation is the
most humane method of killing a person because death is instant
(which is why the guillotine was invented by a physician), but
it's too messy for American public taste. It's ok in movies,
but not when it's for real live from the prison. Besides, the
prison guards in the West may know how to shoot, but they probably
need some practice with the blade.
The Arabs do it in the public square in the
middle of town. (When I say they "do it," I don't mean
they have sex in the public square; on the contrary, they execute
people for having had sex with the wrong persons at the wrong
times.)
Christian fundies love the Muslim regimes
for punishing infidelity, out-of-wedlock pregnancies and other
sexual indiscretions, preferably with death, because Moses suggested
a similar approach to law and justice. And America would get
its act straight if only the law of Moses would replace the Constitution
and be enforced by a newborn Christian full of merciless hell
who is willing to clean up the country, even if it entails beheading
his own mother.
Blasphemy is also a capital crime and should
be punished accordingly.
Check this out:
http://www.pluto.no/Doogie/Ga/huset/kmv/artikler/basta2a.html
This is a twelve year old interview with Saeed
AL Sayaf, Saudi Arabia's executioner. The text is Norwegian,
but the photographs tell the whole story: A guy is being beheaded
for having insulted Allah with some blasphemous remarks.
Affectionate greetings & sweet dreams,
Tarjei
http://uncletaz.com/
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From: lightsearcher1
Date: Sun Nov 23, 2003 1:15 pm
Subject: re: Islam, Christianity, and justice....
Welcome to the shrewd, calculating Orwellian
(and DUPLICITOUS) victim-speak of Soratian Western Islam -- which
conspires to use Eu-rope (and its freedoms) with which to hang
us:
http://www.secularislam.net/archives/000024.html
http://www.secularislam.net/archives/000023.html
--- "lightsearcher1" wrote:
(quoting another:) It is folly to equate
automatically what Steiner is calling here "Arabism"
with Islam.
As much as you proceed to overly-complexify,
mix and muddle from this line forward, the fact is that Steiner
makes EXPLICIT EQUATION of Arabism to Islam in this lecture.
In these lectures, Steiner is manifestly using Arabism and Islam
as pre-eminent synonyms. Don't believe me? -- I will quote examples
as soon as I access the book (which is going back on my bookshelf
today after a residential move this week.)
Change "Mohammed" by "The
Prophets" and you have the same thing (or maybe worse?)
in modern militant Judaism.
HERE IT IS -- The repellant and frightening
anti-Semitism regnant through the globe today has taken residence.
He is telling us that Judaism is worse than Soratian Islam.
You use the words "modern militant Judaism" when all
around the globe you have a TRUE indiscriminate Soratian militancy
blowing up human beings -- professionals, mothers, fathers, and
babies and children -- going about their business in office or
street or synagogue.
ISLAM has PERSECUTION OF OTHERS written into its core NEVER-EVOLVING
principles --
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/
The Jews have never subjugated others in the way that Christians
and Muslims and Europeans have persecuted them.
Please don't cite me -- as "a persecuted people" the
Palestinians toward whom and with whom Israel is EVER-READY to
be at peace -- though the contrary is untrue in quite an ugly
way:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?L3A023F96
The whole of Western (read Christian) civilization
is guilty of "Arabism".
Here it is: the "Syndrome of the Left"
-- Relativism -- where everybody is equally Right or everybody
is equally Wrong.
Expressions such as yours are further proof that proto-Lefties
ALWAYS EXCUSE -- AND NEVER HOLD OTHER CULTURES -- to the SAME
UNIVERSAL STANDARDS to which the demand the WEST adhere.
You demand of the West "multi-culturalism," but proto-Lefties
like yourself permanently exculpate and excuse non-Western cultures
from adherence to the same "universal" standards.
In your eyes, they can be excused from blowing our civilians
to kingdom come -- because the West is just so damnably bad.
"We" have to show toward them civil rights, but NEVER
would you vigorously demand the same of THEM toward US, because
(your mindset would say) "that's not part of their cultural/traditional
experience."
Your explication is a proof-text example of Malcolm Muggeridge's
perceptive insight that "modern man has educated himself
into imbecility."
.............................................................................................................................
From: lightsearcher1
Date: Sun Nov 23, 2003 1:30 pm
Subject: Re: Islam, Christianity, and justice....
Speaking of Islam and Justice (and Truthfulness),
one of the great occult mottos of Islam is:
"We are Lying Ba_tards by Divine Decree"
http://www.stormoskenejtak.dk/british/taqija.htm
http://www.stormoskenejtak.dk/british/legal.htm
.............................................................................................................................
From: Tarjei Straume
Date: Mon Nov 24, 2003 3:12 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Islam, Christianity,
and justice....
At 22:30 23.11.2003, lightsearcher1 wrote:
Speaking of Islam and Justice (and Truthfulness),
one of the great occult mottos of Islam is:
"We are Lying Ba_tards by Divine Decree"
Sounds like the Scientologists. I believe
Scientology has a lot in common with Islam. "Professional
lying," advanced intelligence networks, field agents, the
facade of tolerating other religions while regarding them as
enemies to be destroyed, etc. Promising liberty and delivering
slavery. Both ideologies regard Christianity as their number
one enemy.
Thank you for the links.
Tarjei
http://uncletaz.com/
.............................................................................................................................
From: dottie zold
Date: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:23 pm
Subject: Re: Islam, Christianity, and justice....
--- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, Tarjei Straume
wrote:
At 22:30 23.11.2003, lightsearcher1 wrote:
Speaking of Islam and Justice (and Truthfulness),
one of the great occult mottos of Islam is:
"We are Lying Ba_tards by Divine Decree"
Dottie:
Hi Lightsearcher, (I don't have your name in this post, pardon
me)
I'd like to know what the original words in
Arabic are to this quote you have above? Also I am wondering
if this is considered a 'great occult motto of Islam' who's quote
is it? Also if it is an 'occult' motto wouldn't that designate
a ' he who has ears to hear and he who has eyes to see' understanding.
Tarjei:
Sounds like the Scientologists. I believe Scientology has
a lot in common with Islam. "Professional lying," advanced
intelligence networks, field agents, the facade of tolerating
other religions while regarding them as enemies to be destroyed,
etc. Promising liberty and delivering slavery. Both ideologies
regard Christianity as their number one enemy.
Hey Tarjei,
I am realy sorry but once again I believe
we are speaking of Islamic fundies which truly do not represent
all of Islam nor the majority. Scientology is represented by
all those things as they were founded on this particular ideology
of a man made mandate. Islam is not, it is spiritual based.
Truly, without trying to insult my compatriots
that may feel differently about the Bush administration, I have
to say I really believe Christianity, in the way they have carried
themselves in the world, rightly or wrongly, is representing
the same ideas you have posted above about Islam and Scientology.
My best,
Dottie
.............................................................................................................................
From: Tarjei Straume
Date: Tue Nov 25, 2003 8:27 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Islam, Christianity,
and justice....
At 05:23 25.11.2003, Dottie wrote:
I am realy sorry but once again I believe
we are speaking of Islamic fundies which truly do not represent
all of Islam nor the majority. Scientology is represented by
all those things as they were founded on this particular ideology
of a man made mandate. Islam is not, it is spiritual based.
Truly, without trying to insult my compatriots that may feel
differently about the Bush administration, I have to say I really
believe Christianity, in the way they have carried themselves
in the world, rightly or wrongly, is representing the same ideas
you have posted above about Islam and Scientology.
We're not only talking about ideas here, but
about terrorist activities as a tool to aquire world domination.
There are racist organizations, hate groups etc. on the radical
right that call themselves Christians, and who carry out terrorist
attacks against innocent random victims. The KKK has been with
us for decades, but it has shrunk to a faint shadow of the power
it enjoyed in the 1960's, and its mischief is almost non-existent
thanks to grassroot organizations like Klanwatch. Tim McVeigh
may have been partially motivated by a Christian ideology of
sorts when he planted the Oklahoma City bomb as a revenge against
the Waco massacre by the FBI, but he was primarily misled through
military training and his role in Desert Storm.
There are also Christian fundies who murder
abortionalists, and gays have been lynched and killed by right
wing Christians for generations. There are Christian paramilitary
survivalist groups with racist, sometimes even Nazi, ideologies.
But in spite of all this, there are some outstanding
differences between Christian and Muslim excesses. We have yet
to see Christian suicide missions, for instance. The closest
comparison to Muslim suicide bombers has to be the Japanese Kamasaki
pilots during World War II. To them, the Emperor was God, and
their final words were "Long live the Emperor!" - which
is quite reminiscent of the well-known "God is great!"
or "Allah is the greatest!" that we hear from suicidal
Muslims.
Another difference of great importance is
that Islam has never gone through the equivalent of the Renaissance
and the Reformation that helped adapt Christianity to modern
times. There are moderate Muslims in Europe who believe that
a similar reform is necessary, but if their sentiments should
be uttered in Iran, for instance, they would probably lose their
heads to the sword.
For this reason, there are significant differences
between Christian and Muslim fundamentalism. If Christian fundies
were really of the exact same ilk as their Muslim counterparts,
they would stone women to death for infidelity, plot to blow
up most U.S. cities for being like Sodom and Gomorrah and so
on.
I confess that my take on Islam may be biased,
prejudiced. It's a prejudice I've had long before September 11
2001. I can't stand blind obedience, and I strongly dislike the
sight of hoardes of people prostrating themselves in a unison
unconditional surrender to an external metaphysical dictator.
I find it repugnant; it freaks me out, it disturbs me and worries
me deeply.
We need humanism today with the individual
human being in the center - the autonomous, self-dependent human
being with a fully developed thinking. It doesn't matter if this
humanism is atheistic or religious or agnostic. From that position,
one is free to "serve somebody" as Bob Dylan puts it,
but this must happen as an act of freedom. The surrender in Islam
appears to me to be a result of coercion and threats and indoctrination
and brainwashing, with dire consequences for disobedience or
heresy.
I also have Muslim friends, very good friends,
mostly from Africa, and we usually talk about things other than
religion. But you should have heard me when I discussed the fatwa
against Rushdie with a buddy of mine from Sudan some years back.
I told him off for his support of the fatwa very strongly, in
no uncertain terms, and in a manner that can only be done between
people who have known each other for a long time. That's why
it's so important that Muslims in the West are not only integrated
and assimilated, but influenced by us in such a way that they
are given the opportunity to break away from their dangerous
and destructive cult and become ex-Muslims.
Cheers,
Tarjei
http://uncletaz.com/
.............................................................................................................................
From: dottie zold
Date: Wed Nov 26, 2003 7:56 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Islam, Christianity,
and justice....
Tarjei wrote:
We're not only talking about ideas here, but about terrorist
activities as a tool to aquire world domination.
Okay Tarjei, lets look at how this all began
in the first place. With every action there is a reaction. Who
has it been that has had had their hand in every single pie in
the last fifty years?
The US has been hellbent on domination and
destruction all in the name of making other peoples like our
own Christian peoples. Once the oppression begins of one country
to another the ones with bigger guns have to deal with an insurgency
that will find other ways to rebel. Just last week alone, the
US Army was given the okay to use lethal force on rock throwing
prisoners of war held inside a barbed wire fence. I believe eight
people were killed. Rock throwers versus bullets. Will these
rock throwers unite again and throw rocks at the invaders even
if death is immminent. Absolutely. Why? Because they refuse to
be held prisoners in their own homeland. They refuse to have
Christianity shoved down their throats. What a disgrace and does
nothing to inspire a people to even respect Christ or the people
who claim to worship Him.
So, from rock throwers they grow up to find
other ways to ease their oppressions. And that means massive
deaths to those who dare to continue this oppression. Even the
Israel Army is catching on that things are getting worse. Bullets
can not stop a mans spirit from acheiving what is believes stands
in the way of freedom. You can not oppress people into obediance.
Not when they feel God is on their side and backs their want
for their own homeland to worship as they will.
So we have nuclear bombs they have human bombs.
Isreal has nuclear they have human bombs. It be interesting to
see what the first suicide bommber was and what it was in reaction
to or rather what its goal was.
Tarjei
There are racist organizations, hate groups etc. on the radical
right that call themselves Christians, and who carry out terrorist
attacks against innocent random victims. The KKK has been with
us for decades, but it has shrunk to a faint shadow of the power
it enjoyed in the 1960's, and its mischief is almost non-existent
thanks to grassroot organizations like Klanwatch.
Dottie
Yeah, its 'mischief' has gotten really intelligent
by going underground. Now we have hidden politicians with KK
leanings who are voted into office. A wink here another wink
there and all is consolidated. It had to hide because it was
repulsive to the main stream. But it is getting stronger I believe
and that begins with the dismantling of certain protections that
were afforded people of color, that is the non white color, to
be able to put food on their table and a shot at acheiving the
American Dream, in my opinion.
Tarjei
But in spite of all this, there are some outstanding differences
between Christian and Muslim excesses. We have yet to see Christian
suicide missions, for instance.
Dottie
Tarjei, do you have any idea how many innocent
people were killed in Iraq and Afghanistan? What would you call
these? Are they not suicide missions because the one with the
guns and machines do not die. There is a massive murdering going
on in Iraq and it is just deplorable. I do not think my soldiers
are the blame it is the Christian run government that lied to
us and so arrogantly believed and knew they would find weapons
of mass destruction. And they have great support from other Christian
right organizations including their churches. I have no doubt
they really believed they would be justified. Well, Saddam had
the last laugh on the Bushs personal agenda.
Tarjei
The closest comparison to Muslim suicide bombers has to be
the Japanese Kamasaki pilots during World War II. To them, the
Emperor was God, and their final words were "Long live the
Emperor!" - which is quite reminiscent of the well-known
"God is great!" or "Allah is the greatest!"
that we hear from suicidal Muslims.
Dottie
Well, in my mind we do the exact same thing
but we are much smarter than they. If they had the guns I do
not believe they would need to sacrifice their physical bodies
although they do not mind. And Allah is great. And just as this
Christian administration believes it is in a holy war and are
willing to sacrifice other mens sons for their God so do the
others. They are smart. They recognize a holy war when they see
one. They have no doubt and neither do I.
Tarjei
Another difference of great importance is that Islam has never
gone through the equivalent of the Renaissance and the Reformation
that helped adapt Christianity to modern times.
Dottie
I do not even think they had made time. They
have never been out of war. The west has had a hand in their
business for ever. The cold war with Russia and the arming of
all their men by our country helped to really show them how to
wage a war. And they know their enemy well as they fought beside
him for many years in helping to keep the 'evil' non god communist
people down.
We gave these people weapons that they used
for genocide against the Iranians in their long war. We knew
what Sadamm had because WE gave it to him.
The idea of reformation can come when people
have a chance to stop fighting all the outsiders for a place
to breathe in their own homeland.
Tarjei
There are moderate Muslims in Europe who believe that a similar
reform is necessary, but if their sentiments should be uttered
in Iran, for instance, they would probably lose their heads to
the sword.
Dottie
Actually there is a reform movement in Iran
and they are not cutting off their heads. And I will have to
ask you why is it that this extreme group is in charge? Is it
not the Americans who tried to overthrow their goverment and
ushered in the extreme Ayahtolah (sp)? He was actually exiled
from that country and for good reason before the US got involved.
Don't forget how many peoples in Afghanistan
fought the Taliban until they lost. Sadamm Husein did not give
into the Shiites even though they are 60% of the populations.
He did not give into the al Quaida group either. He knew they
were extremists and did not want any of that. The women were
well taken care of and had many in their political system as
well as colleges. We go over there and have set back the cause
for womens rights who knows how many years. The women did not
wear the scarves and in fact have now had to return to this due
to the Shiites. And I hate to even acknowledge this thought that
the Shiites are going to be in power after this is all said and
done. And then we are really in trouble if we care about human
rights. That triangle of Syria, Iran and Iraq will shake the
world which will possibly bring Pakistan with them. Turkey will
be in big trouble.
And after this is all said and done the Americans
can keep saying how barbaric the middle easterners who follow
Muhammed are without even a tiny bit of self reflection to see
where they played the activating role in this type of behaviour
still continuing. And of course it will all fall down to Muhammeds
fault. I wonder why people do not blame Jesus when his people
killed others in his name. Probably due to all the propaganda
against Muhammed that is so easily to be believed as we really
do not check outside of what others have said about him. We so
readily believe the negative. No thinking behaviour involved
in going along with others.
Tarjei
For this reason, there are significant differences between
Christian and Muslim fundamentalism. If Christian fundies were
really of the exact same ilk as their Muslim counterparts, they
would stone women to death for infidelity, plot to blow up most
U.S. cities for being like Sodom and Gomorrah and so on.
Dottie
Oh jeez Tarjei. Christian fundies do it in
a more intelligent way. They have no need to do this as they
just need to claim the bible shows men are superior and women
are the downfall of man. The Baptist organization actually split
a few years back due to the idea being put into action that a
woman must defer all to her husband and begin to walk behind
her man. Literally.
And a major difference to me that shows the
disgusting part of Christain fundies is that they have indeed
blown up a country for their god. AND the Muslim is not doing
this to bring Allah to America. They are doing it to keep America
out of its lands and its business. We are the ones doing it in
the name of Christianity.
I think people miss the point when they say
it was for oil that we invaded. It was not. It was for Christ.
He is a born again Christian looking who believe they are at
the ends of time. That is what born agains do: tryi to bring
the end so we can meet our maker. And it is revelations. In the
words of the general "It was God that put Bush in office,
not the people" and for this time.
Now, on a spiritual level we can look past
all the he said she said and so forth. We can actually look to
see what the overview of such a thing is. These muslims encourage
me to humble myself before God even more than I thought I could.
The idea of praying three times a day is astounding in its effeciency.
The constant call to God is beatiful.
Tarjei
I confess that my take on Islam may be biased, prejudiced.
Dottie
I think it is uneducated which produces prejudice.
We read and watch what is splashed across the headlines and we
do not investigate further. I mean they are the largest growing
population among religions. Why is that?
Tarjei
It's a prejudice I've had long before September 11 2001.
Dottie
And I use to have this prejudice long before
September 11 as well. But I realized that I felt manipulated
by the press. The more muslims I met the more I worked inside
my self to understand what was going on? Here I hear all these
terrible things and yet my muslim friends love God so much that
it is inspiring. And they love Muhammed for showing them the
way. And I am still trying to educate myself outwardly as I know
inwardly there is a reason for all of this and I am not to turn
against my brother in any instance and I am to rise to the occasion
past human thinking.
Tarjei
I can't stand blind obedience, and I strongly dislike the
sight of hoardes of people prostrating themselves in a unison
unconditional surrender to an external metaphysical dictator.
Dottie
What external metaphysical dictator are you
speaking of here? The Kaaba? That is their pilgrimage. That is
an energy field tied to the spirit of God. And all may come.
Just like we have in Mount Shasta and Sedona. However to get
Americans to take a month off or even a week off in name of real
religious reverence without it being the fundies would be beyond
a possibility at this point in time unless of course we have
no where else to go in another great tragedy unlike any other
we have seen. Let's hope we come to our senses before we are
brought to them. Yet, the muslims do this to the best of their
ability even carrying their mothers on their backs.
Tarjei
From that position, one is free to "serve somebody"
as Bob Dylan puts it, but this must happen as an act of freedom.
The surrender in Islam appears to me to be a result of coercion
and threats and indoctrination and brainwashing, with dire consequences
for disobedience or heresy.
Dottie
Well, I disagree totally. And I think it goes
to show how much hatred, fear and disinformation has been thrown
at this people. How dare them to have a prophet after Christ
already came. Christ is the one and only and none can speak after
him save the priests that have been so ordained and are to be
looked at as the servants of God and even their words are to
be honored as if they came from God Himself. And this is from
its earlies inception. Pretty ridiculous for a free minded thinking
people. One can not even utter today in a Christian community
that one has their own revelations or even reads the words differently
without it being called devil inspired. I have a funny feeling
that at the end of the day we will see Christian against Christian
not Christian against Muslim. As it was in the beginning.
Tarjei
But you should have heard me when I discussed the fatwa against
Rushdie with a buddy of mine from Sudan some years back. I told
him off for his support of the fatwa very strongly, in no uncertain
terms, and in a manner that can only be done between people who
have known each other for a long time.
Dottie
Well, as I stated before there were 25 major
Muslim groups out of 26 that as well condemned the Fatwa but
nobody talks of that. They only talk of the ignorant ones who
put forth this decree.
Tarjei
That's why it's so important that Muslims in the West are
not only integrated and assimilated, but influenced by us in
such a way that they are given the opportunity to break away
from their dangerous and destructive cult and become ex-Muslims.
Dottie
Why would you want them to become ex-Muslims
and not step up to the next level of Sufi? For that is their
own personal way to Christ. And many are finding it bit by bit.
But not by war and not by annihilating their Prophet who leads
to God.
It was Muhammed, like Christ, who broke the
blood ties to the clans that operated in his part of the world.
And the blood ties were the biggest honor, up their with their
Goddess worship ,that the people lived their lives by. It was
Muhammend that brought his particular people to God. And this
particular point in time had Christians against Christians. Christians
were not going to be the ones to bring these Arabs to God nor
the Jews who looked down upon this group of warrioring family
bands fighting for their own particular territory. It was Muhammed.
Sincerely,
Dottie
.............................................................................................................................
From: Tarjei Straume
Date: Thu Nov 27, 2003 2:54 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Islam, Christianity,
and justice....
At 16:56 26.11.2003, Dottie wrote:
The US has been hellbent on domination
and destruction all in the name of making other peoples like
our own Christian peoples.
I disagree. The US has been hellbent on domination
and destruction all in the name of making other peoples consume
American products and make room for American companies. The Christian
agenda is not pursued by US politicians, but by eccentric missionaries
who excpect the rapture to happen with Science Officer John or
Captain Jesus beaming them onboard as soon as everyone in the
world has heard Jerry Falwell's Old Time Gospel Hour.
Once the oppression begins of one country
to another the ones with bigger guns have to deal with an insurgency
that will find other ways to rebel. Just last week alone, the
US Army was given the okay to use lethal force on rock throwing
prisoners of war held inside a barbed wire fence. I believe eight
people were killed. Rock throwers versus bullets.
What you're describing is the stupidity of
politics and militarism. The history of US foreign policy is
in some ways equivalent to a story about an elephant who wants
to go shopping in a china store. He picks up a shopping cart
and wants to walk gently, but he has this huge trunk that gets
in the way all the time... And sometimes the whole building rambles
down, so he walks into another store instead.
Will these rock throwers unite again and
throw rocks at the invaders even if death is immminent. Absolutely.
Why? Because they refuse to be held prisoners in their own homeland.
They refuse to have Christianity shoved down their throats. What
a disgrace and does nothing to inspire a people to even respect
Christ or the people who claim to worship Him.
Although destructive aspects of American politics
domestic and foreign are fuelled by the Religious Right, the
execution of foreign politics remains secular and pragmatic,
motivated by the Almighty Dollar. The Christian talk is only
hogwash being fed to the administration's kitchen cabinet. But
what is more important is that those who shape and carry out
the policy in Iraq and elsewhere, sincerely believe that they
are promoting freedom, democracy and other goodies.
Steiner predicted that America will degenerate
completely in the Seventh Sub-Race (i.e. in the 7th Cultural
Epoch):
The Sixth Sub-Race will develop
a Super-psychic Manas. What with human beings today is merely
a kind of knowledge will become actual reality, a social force.
The Sixth Sub-Race has the task of permeating society in a social
way with everything which has been produced by the preceding
stages of evolution. Then for the first time Christianity will
come forth as shaper of the social order. The Sixth Sub-Race
will be the one which is the germinal foundation for the Sixth
Root-Race. The Fifth Root-Race is descended from the original
Semites, from the Fifth Sub-Race of the Fourth Root-Race. This
people developed the individual ego which produces egoism. Man
owes his independence to the original Semites. Man must find
himself, but then again must also surrender himself. He must
surrender himself to what makes thought a reality. The Sixth
Sub-Race is destined to replace blood relationship with Manas
relationship, relationship in the spirit. Thinking which is altruistic
will develop the predisposition to the overcoming of egoism.
The Seventh Sub-Race will
be a premature birth. It will make outwardly real too soon and
too strongly what has come forth from Manas.
In the Sixth Sub-Race the
predisposition will be given for the overcoming of egoism, but
in such a way that the balance is held between selfhood and selflessness.
The man of the Sixth Sub-Race will neither lose himself in what
is outside, nor shut himself up in what is within. With the Seventh
Sub-Race a kind of hypertrophy will come about. Man will then
pour out what he now has within him: his egoism. On the other
hand the members of the Sixth Sub-Race will hold the balance.
The Seventh Sub-Race will harden egoism. Later the English-American
people will be projected as something rigified into the Sixth
Root-Race, just as today the Chinese are a rigified residue of
the Atlantean Age, the Fourth Root-Race.
World-egoism proceeds from
the Anglo-American Race. From that direction the whole Earth
will be overlaid with egoism. So it is from there that the whole
Earth will be covered by a network of egoistic evil. But from
a small colony in the East [the Slavonic peoples} there will
be developed, as though from a seed, new life for the future.
The English-American civilization
consumes European culture. The sects in England and America represent
nothing other than the most incredible conservation of what is
old. But such Societies as the Salvation Army, the Theosophical
Society and so on, come into existence just there, in order to
rescue souls from decadence, for race evolution does not run
parallel with soul evolution. But the race itself is going towards
its destruction. Within it is the seed of the evil race.
In the Fourth Sub-Race work
was performed as tribute (Slave Labor)
In the Fifth Sub-Race work
is performed as commodity (sold)
In the Sixth Sub-Race work
will be performed as an offering (free work)
The economic needs of existence
will then be separated from work: there will be no more personal
possession, everything will be owned in common. One will no longer
work for one's personal existence, but will do everything as
absolute offering for humanity.
(Foundations of Esotericism, Lecture XXVII,
Berlin, 30th October 1905 - Grundelemente der Esoterik, GA 93a)
So, from rock throwers they grow up to
find other ways to ease their oppressions. And that means massive
deaths to those who dare to continue this oppression.
"Better free your mind instead"
- John Lennon ("Revolution")
Even the Israel Army is catching on that
things are getting worse. Bullets can not stop a mans spirit
from acheiving what is believes stands in the way of freedom.
The spirit achieves nothing but enhanced hatred
and hostility and further destruction and oppression by this
method. What the Palestinians need is a Muslim representative
equivalent to Mahatma Gandhi; someone who understands that the
end does NOT justify the means. A non-violent revolutionary who
could prove unstoppable if the right methods were used: Love
your enemies.
You can not oppress people into obediance.
That's not the idea. The idea is to oppress
them into hatred.
Says RS:
For example, in the case of
the people of the Central countries and the Eastern lands it
is an important hindrance to the evolution of these capacities,
especially their evolution in a knowing way, when strong antipathies
against the people of the Western countries are active within
them. Then these things cannot be viewed objectively. This is
a hindrance in the evolution of these capacities.
But the potentiality of developing
another occult capacity is also even strenghtened in a certain
way if it is developed out of a certain instinct of hatred. This
is a strange phenomenon. We often ask ourselves, and we are dealing
here with something that must be considered quite objectively,
why such senseless abuse has been practiced in the Western countries.
This also comes out of the instinct leading toward these capacities.
For what constitutes the profoundest impelling forces in Western
occultism is fostered by nothing more powerfully than by the
development of feelings that are untrue but are sensed as in
some way holy, and that can represent the people of the East
and especially those of the Central countries as barbarians.
The potentialities of material occultism, for example, are fostered
by the attitude of mine constituting the so-called crusading
temperament in America. This consists in the feeling that America
is called to spread over the whole earth freedom and justice
and I know not what other beautiful things. Of course, the people
there believe that. What I am saying here has nothing to do with
fault finding. The people believe that they are engaged in a
crusade, but this belief in something false constitutes a support
working in a certain direction. If a person should consciously
make an untrue statement, he would not have this support.
("The Challenge of the Times - 12 lectures
from November 29 and December 1, 1919, GA #186: Die Soziale Grundforderung
unserer Zeit In reänderter Zeitage: December 1, 1918: Die
Entwickelung mechanischer, eugenetischer und hygienischer okkulter
Fähigkeiten in der Zukunft)
(See my article at http://www.uncletaz.com/seclodg.html
)
Not when they feel God is on their side
and backs their want for their own homeland to worship as they
will.
God on their side? Reminds me of another Dylan
classic:
http://bobdylan.com/songs/withgod.html
<snip>
And a major difference to me that shows
the disgusting part of Christain fundies is that they have indeed
blown up a country for their god. AND the Muslim is not doing
this to bring Allah to America. They are doing it to keep America
out of its lands and its business. We are the ones doing it in
the name of Christianity.
The Muslims do indeed have an agenda to win
the world, including Europe and America, for Islam. They have
expressed intentions of establishing Muslim regimes in all nations,
beginning with the countries where the majority of the populations
are Muslims. That's why they're so hot in Turkey right now. They
can't stand to see a Muslim nation with a secular pro-West regime.
Steiner's strong words about Mohammedanism
and Sorath was primarily about Mohammedanism in Europe, in the
West.
<I had to snip the rest of your long post,
because I'm on my way to work.>
Cheers,
Tarjei
http://uncletaz.com/
.............................................................................................................................
From: Tarjei Straume
Date: Thu Nov 27, 2003 3:13 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Islam, Christianity,
and justice....
As a summary of my last long post:
As long as the Palestinians and other Muslim
rebels practice hatred and retribution against their enemies,
they're bound to lose, and they only harden the hearts of their
oppressors. Gandhi's strategy was to love his enemies and soften
their hearts by appealing to their conscience. He refused to
play the eye-for-an-eye game. Gandhi and Martin Luther King were
victorious for this very reason, under the guidance of Christ-Michael.
The Muslim terrorists are obviously not under
the guidance of Christ-Michael, regardless of how justified their
cause may be. And without an approach in harmony with the Spirit
of the Age, but stuck in the desert of the 14th century with
bricks in their hands, they cannot hope for victory.
Tarjei
http://uncletaz.com/
.............................................................................................................................
From: Gisele
Date: Sat Nov 29, 2003 2:50 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] If (was Islam, Christianity,
and justice....)
Hi Tarjei.
Let's imagine that a great Michael inspired leader rise in Palestine
today: do you think the Israeli leaders would soften their hearts?
.............................................................................................................................
From: Tarjei Straume
Date: Sat Nov 29, 2003 3:12 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] If (was Islam, Christianity,
and justice....)
At 23:50 29.11.2003, Gisele wrote:
Let's imagine that a great Michael inspired
leader rise in Palestine today:do you think the Israeli leaders
would soften their hearts?
It worked on the British, and it worked on
white Americans. I won't make the claim that it will work on
absolutely everyone - Gandhi tried to reason with Hitler by writing
to him - but the Israeli leadership has always consisted of individuals
very similar to, and close to, Western leaders. It's the Western
Jews who hold the cards there, not the Jews from Russia, Africa,
etc. Israel is part and parcel of the Western Establishment.
So of course a leader of this description could turn Israel's
politics around 180 degrees. The political, economic, and military
support from the West would be the first casualty when the sight
of non-violent, peaceful protesters being beaten and killed hits
the TV screens around the world. That's how Britain lost their
rule in India (even without television), when the imperial police
clubbed down peaceful picketeers, maiming and killing them, in
front of the salt factory. It was the final blow to their control,
through the exposure of moral bankruptcy.
Cheers,
Tarjei
http://uncletaz.com/
.............................................................................................................................
From: Daniel Hindes
Date: Sat Nov 29, 2003 7:01 pm
Subject: Taqayyah
"We are Lying Ba_tards by Divine Decree"
Dottie:
Hi Lightsearcher, (I don't have your name in this post, pardon
me)
I'd like to know what the original words in Arabic are to this
quote you have above? Also I am wondering if this is considered
a 'great occult motto of Islam' who's quote is it? Also if it
is an 'occult' motto wouldn't that designate a ' he who has ears
to hear and he who has eyes to see' understanding.
While "We are Lying Ba_tards by Divine
Decree" may overstate the case slightly, it is only slightly.
There is a doctrine called "Taqayyah" which is variously
interpreted. It is based on three verses of the Qu'ran, but the
implications and commentary by various Islamic scholars in the
historical development of Islam become part of Islamic law. In
its mildest form, it allows Muslims to forgo their required religious
duties if showing that they are Muslim would bring harm to them
or other Muslims. "We basically understand taqiyyah as being
an ordinance aimed at the protection of the lives of individuals
and their personal interests, so long as that does not violate
the basic principles and political commitment to society."
(http://www.al-islam.org/al-tawhid/heir.htm)
(see also http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article?eu=405571
and http://www.al-islam.org/shiism/10.htm).
The implications have lead Islamic religious
scholars to the next logical step:
"Imam al-Ghazzali narrates
that protecting the Muslim blood is obligatory, and lying is
obligatory to prevent shedding the blood of a Muslim." (http://www.al-islam.org/shiism/10.htm).
By some it has been extended to cover converting
non-believers to islam under false pretenses, that is, not revealing
some of the harder aspects of the faith until after conversion
(at which point apostacy is punished by death - http://www.al-islam.org/short/apostacy.htm)
(http://www.geocities.com/~abdulwahid\/ahlibayt/shiism_vs_islam.html#P2).
"Muslims are sometimes
accused of lying when they are presenting Islam in a manner that
is acceptable to the listener. But this is a common educational
strategy. It is not difficult to determine and understand that
different people understand words differently. This causes them
to misunderstand what a person is saying. This may lead to many
futile arguments or to long discussions to clarify what is meant.
The intelligent thing to do, therefore, is to learn about the
culture of a people, their ideas and values and about how they
use and understand language. Then to explain things accordingly
rather than by a literal translation of the Quran which was primarily
designed for another people in another age." (http://www.altway.freeuk.com/Answers/175-ReLying.htm)
These versions all originate in the Shî'ah
branch of Islam. The Sunni branch vehemently opposes all of the
implied versions, and some accuse all Shi'ia of practicing it
against Sunni's (http://islamicweb.com/beliefs/cults/shia_taqayyah.htm)
From a Sunni website:
"In spite of the differences
among the various Shi'ite sects, they all agree that Taqiyyah
is a prescribed duty and a pillar of their faith! Their schools
of thought could not stand without it. It is a Shi'ite tradition
that "Taqiyyah is my faith and the faith of my forefathers."
They also say that "whosoever does not practice taqiyyah
he has no faith"." (http://www.infolanka.com/people/hidaayah/B2S-001.htm)
These interpretations are disputed by other
Islamic scholars, who claim that none of the above interpretations
are valid (http://www.answering-ansar.org/answers/taqiyyah/en/index.php)
in true Islam (as an aside, there seems to be quite a bit of
disagreement on what "true" Islam actually is). None
the less, there remain quite a few people in the world who believe
in one or another of the above.
So Dotti,
There is no phrase in Arabic that states the
above exactly, however it is a much-discussed point of doctrine.
Daniel
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